Dana Jonson [00:00:09]:
Welcome back to Special Ed on Special Ed. Thank you so much for joining me Again, I have an exciting guest today. I have the honor of hosting Melody Murray, a licensed marriage and family therapist and child mental health specialist who has a rich background that includes roles as diverse as hospital er, mental health evaluator and a reality TV producer, which I hope you’ll touch on at some point. Melody’s journey from standup comedy to hosting community conversations embodies her motto, each One Teach One, showcasing her commitment to empowering individuals through shared knowledge and experiences. With expertise in childhood trauma, suicidal ideation, and family dynamics, Melody brings a unique blend of professional insight and personal experience to our discussion today. We’ll explore topics such as the effects of childhood trauma on adults, importance of self care, and breaking generational curses, all while understanding the complex world of suicidal behavior and transformative power of therapy. As we dive into this conversation, let’s open our minds to the lessons and healing that Melody advocates for through her work, public forums and online courses, making mental health more approachable for everyone. Thank you so much for being here.

Dana Jonson [00:01:24]:
Melody.

Melody Murray [00:01:24]:
Hello. I’m so happy to be here. Dana.

Dana Jonson [00:01:26]:
Excellent. Well, before we dive into it, I do need to play my disclaimer because I do that, so here we go. The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you’re listening. Nothing in this episode creates an attorney client relationship, nor is it legal advice. Do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in or accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on the particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider license in your state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. Awesome. Well Melody, I’m so glad you’re here. This is such an important topic and I myself have several children who have traumatic backgrounds who are adopted through foster care and I have two children who are self injurious and one with suicidal ideations.

Dana Jonson [00:02:11]:
Or we’ve at least gone through that phase. Fingers crossed. So it’s very near and dear to me and I think it’s really important for parents to have a better understanding of what they’re looking at and looking for. Because sometimes I know for at least my husband and me, it was quite shocking when we found out and it probably shouldn’t have been, but it was. And it’s very unfortunate to me that some parents don’t find out until it’s too late. And so, you know, I want to start. However, I Know that this is a little. A little depressing, this topic, but I think that we can put a little light into it.

Dana Jonson [00:02:48]:
And I would like to start with you telling us about your background because it’s so interesting and you’ve done so many different things that how you ended up here, I’m dying to hear. So if you wouldn’t mind taking us down that road, that would be great.

Melody Murray [00:03:02]:
Sure, sure. It’s a tough topic, but it’s a very necessary topic. So whenever I was in college, my major in undergrad was hotel and restaurant management and did not spend one second working in a hotel or a restaurant. But I started. I started hosting a children’s show and went down that road and started working. I went from in front of the camera to behind the camera and eventually left Houston, which is where I grew and moved to Los Angeles and stayed behind the scenes, worked my way up to be a TV producer, which I loved for a really long time. I directed reality shows, produced reality shows, and it was great. You know, you’re jet setting, you’re all over the place, and you’re traveling on somebody else’s dime.

Melody Murray [00:03:48]:
But as you grow older and much more mature, you realize that you really do want your time to matter. Wherever you’re putting your time and energy, it matters where you do what you do with your time and your energy. And so I started really feeling that. I would say now it was an existential crisis in reality shows. Most shows, it’s young people. Whenever I started, it’s mostly young people. And you realize that you’re putting a camera on someone during their most distressful moment. And that, that’s reality tv.

Melody Murray [00:04:26]:
You know, it’s not for the boring people. It’s not for people who have their stuff together.

Dana Jonson [00:04:31]:
Right. That’s not what we want to watch. Right. We want to watch the absolute mess.

Melody Murray [00:04:35]:
We want to see train wrecks. You want to see someone flip out when people were really having tough moments where, you know, they were, you know, acting out sexually, they were drinking too much, using drugs or whatever, or, you know, just having these emotional outbursts. You couldn’t say anything. My job was to put the camera in the right spot. And I didn’t really think about it in the beginning of my career. But eventually I got to that place where I truly understood what was going on, that this is going to last forever. And you’ve got people who don’t really understand the concept of this living in perpetuity. And I can’t say anything.

Melody Murray [00:05:11]:
I can’t say, are you sure you want to have that next shot? Do you really want to go on a date with this person? You should probably break up. You can’t say any of those things.

Dana Jonson [00:05:20]:
You should probably see someone. That’s not.

Melody Murray [00:05:21]:
You should see someone. Therapy. Heard of it, can’t say any of that. And that’s what started to bother me. And I realized, like, where do I want to be in this world? Like, what do I want my life to represent? I had a moment. I worked on a show that was an absolute hot mess. And I’m naturally an early riser. And this day I woke up early, but I didn’t get out of the bed until like one in the afternoon.

Melody Murray [00:05:50]:
And I really had to own, like, why I felt miserable. It was because of my job. And then I thought, okay, well, if I leave this job, because I made the leap very quickly, I can’t do this anymore. Then I thought, well, what are you going to do? You know, what to be? Well, what do you like? What helps you? What are you interested in? And that was the thing. I was in my own therapy at that time and it helped me in ways that I didn’t even know I needed to be helped. And I thought, that’s it. So I ended up quitting the job that I was on in that moment, I quit and I moved on to another show. And then that show was really the launching pad for me wanting to do something else.

Melody Murray [00:06:30]:
And so I was out of town for both those. I’d reached out to my own therapist. I said, I gotta meet with you as soon as I’m back in la. I gotta have a session with you. I’ve got to run something past you. And I said to him, I said, I think that I want to leave the TV to become a therapist. And because you’re my therapist, you have to tell me if I’m too crazy for that. Right, right.

Dana Jonson [00:06:49]:
You’re obligated.

Melody Murray [00:06:51]:
You’re obligated. And so he’s like, no, I think you’d be brilliant. I’ll write whatever recommendation letters you need. And that was it. And I’m grateful that I made the switch. Whenever I talk to people about it, you know, so many people go, how did you do that? And I said, they’re more closely related than you would realize. There’s a lot of un healed mental health issues in television in front and behind the camera. And so I was managing all of these egos and all of these personalities and all of these outbursts anyway, right? Why not get paid?

Dana Jonson [00:07:25]:
Why not be trained?

Melody Murray [00:07:27]:
Why not be Trained and get paid for it. So that’s what I did. I took a break from television. I went to graduate school. I got my master’s in clinical psychology. And this is what I’ve been doing ever since.

Dana Jonson [00:07:37]:
That’s wonderful. That’s great. I mean, that’s such a neat way to take what you’re seeing and turn it around, you know, and what’s not making you feel good. Be able to then apply all of that to making a difference, to doing something different. When we’re talking about suicidal behaviors, what are we talking about? What are we looking for as parents? Because I think you’re looking for depression maybe and signs of that, but not necessarily. Where does one start when we’re talking about suicidal issues?

Melody Murray [00:08:08]:
Well, depression doesn’t mean suicidal behavior. It doesn’t mean suicidal thoughts. And I think that’s a really important distinction to make, that just because someone is depressed doesn’t mean that they’re considering taking their life. I think that as a parent looking at your child, when you’re trying to figure out what’s going on, the best thing to do is look at the changes. Have you noticed changes in your child, Changes in behavior? That they used to be really gregarious and they were a part of every club and every, you know, extracurricular activity and now they don’t hang out with anyone, they never leave their room. Look for the changes. Were they physically active? Were they playing sports or at least going on walks with the family or walking the dog? And now they don’t do that. So pay attention to the changes that you see in your child because you know your child better than they know themselves in lots of ways.

Melody Murray [00:08:58]:
So don’t automatically assume that just because someone’s going through a depressive moment that that is what they’re thinking. But ask the questions, ask the questions. And you don’t have to be any kind of expert to ask the questions. Asking the questions isn’t doing a full on assessment of your child. You can lean on professionals to do that. But it is important since you are on the front lines of working, you know, being with your child, that you do need to ask some questions. Ask for help in asking those questions. Reach out to the school counselor if you need to.

Melody Murray [00:09:30]:
You know, school counselors are there, typically they’re doing schedule changes. They also get training in crisis. They don’t do therapy, but they do get certain crisis training. So that whenever kids at school are having these hard moments, they know what to do to get help. So ask, ask professionals around you if you Know someone in your community that’s a doctor or a therapist. Ask them questions, but start with your kid. Hey, honey, I’ve noticed that Melissa was your best friend and you guys used to spend every weekend together, and I haven’t seen her around here in months. What happened? Not did something happen? Because you know something, how.

Melody Murray [00:10:06]:
This is not a time to be passive aggressive. This is time to be direct. Be direct. And in parts of this, you’re going to have to teach your child a new vocabulary. Don’t assume that they know the words to choose to express themselves and articulate what they’re feeling. You’re going to have to educate them. Just ask questions. And know that sometimes you’re going to be spot on and it’s going to be really uncomfortable, and there are going to be times when you’re going to hear things that you don’t want to hear.

Melody Murray [00:10:35]:
But you’re the adult here. Suck it up. You’re guiding your child. You’re. And don’t dismiss it. I think that’s what a lot of parents will do. They will automatically dismiss and go, oh, that’s not my kid. My kid would never do that.

Dana Jonson [00:10:47]:
Right? Or. Or dismiss the feelings. Right? Like, that’s not a big deal. Or, why are you even upset about that? Because I know that, you know, as adults, it’s hard to remember being in middle school, really, and. Or high school or whatever age it is. And the things that are really important to them are really important to them, whether we think they’re ridiculous or not.

Melody Murray [00:11:10]:
That’s such an important point. I can’t stress that enough. I’m grateful that you brought it up. Parents forget what it’s like to be a kid because you’ve got a job and you’ve got children, multiple children. You’ve got retirement plans and you’ve got lawn work and you got to go to the grocery store. Your child is going to school and they’ve got friends, and typically that’s pretty much all they’ve got. So that means. Means that whenever there’s a glitch in their matrix, it’s a big deal.

Melody Murray [00:11:36]:
Do not dismiss them. If they’re having a moment, they’re shutting down, they’re faltering in some way. Don’t dismiss them and go, oh, it’s no big deal.

Dana Jonson [00:11:46]:
Right?

Melody Murray [00:11:46]:
Because now you’ve proven to them they can’t trust you with their emotions. That’s what you’ve just done. I was listening to a radio show several years ago. There was an interviewer, and she was Talking to a 16 year old girl and her father. And the young girl had told her school counselor that she was feeling suicidal. School counselor got her to the hospital to do an assessment. And then they were talking to dad and daughter and the interviewer said to him, what did you feel? What were you thinking when you found out that your daughter wanted to take her life? And he’s like, I was off to be honest with you, like why didn’t she say something? And I said, right there, you’ve just proven why she didn’t say a word to you. And it was easier for her to talk to a practical stranger than it was to speak to her own father.

Melody Murray [00:12:33]:
You’re already hostile. You’re already hostile. You’re already proving that you’re not strong enough to handle her emotions. You’ve proven that with what you just said in those first few words. So be mindful of what you put out there to your kids because they have been watching you for a really long time. So don’t be angry at them that they’ve leaned into someone else. Be curious as to why they didn’t lean into you. And don’t automatically assume that your child is in the wrong.

Melody Murray [00:13:04]:
They didn’t share with you because of something that’s happened between yalls relationship and they feel they can’t trust you with their emotions, period. I’ve had so many parents go after me whenever I worked in the hospital and then also in private practice. I’ve had it happen and I’ve had colleagues happen. It happened to them as well where they’ve been attacked by parents because they’re leaning into the wrong issue. They’re mad at me because their child has shared so many big things that they knew nothing about. So they get mad at me instead of going, what have I done so that my child does not feel that they can trust me. And not even owning that you being mad at me is. There’s the evidence right there.

Melody Murray [00:13:45]:
But your being your lack of self awareness is further distancing yourself from your child. When you need to put your ego on the shelf and just listen, close your mouth and open your ears and listen to your kid without being disrespectful to them because they’re younger than you.

Dana Jonson [00:14:04]:
Yeah, and I hear a lot too. You know, they wouldn’t lie to me. They would. Or it’s sort of like the reverse where parents just assume that their children tell them absolutely everything, therefore nothing could possibly be wrong. And you know, I have to say, like, my children overshare with me and I know that’s supposed to be a good thing. Sometimes I wish they’d keep some stuff to themselves, but that doesn’t mean they don’t lie to me. And it’s not about being a liar. It’s about I am the adult.

Dana Jonson [00:14:31]:
And they don’t think it’s always a good idea to tell me everything. Even no matter how open our relationship is. Right. Some things they keep to themselves. I don’t share everything with my kids because I don’t, you know, I don’t need that. But I think, you know, making that mistake, that you and I agree with you parents know their children the best. I say that all the time. You know, you’re the advocate.

Dana Jonson [00:14:51]:
No one’s standing in back of you in line to advocate for your child.

Melody Murray [00:14:54]:
It’s.

Dana Jonson [00:14:54]:
It’s really just you. But you have to be vulnerable, and you have to realize that you may not always respond 100% the way they want, or you may not know everything that’s going on. And especially when children have other compacting issues, like if they do have other issues in school, where school is challenging, or they don’t feel like they’re typical for whatever reason that, you know, we run into those problems. And again, as you said, it doesn’t mean they’re automatically suicidal. Maybe they’re depressed or maybe they’re doing something else. You know, I remember actually the person, a friend of mine who came to tell us that my. My son had made some suicidal comments to their son. She was terrified because she had no idea how we would respond.

Dana Jonson [00:15:43]:
And I. I remember thinking that was so odd, like, why would I respond poorly? But you’re absolutely right. Some people would be mad or say, my kid won’t do that, or that’s not. Or I heard recently someone say to me, you know, I think they’re just looking for attention. And I just. I wish you could see the face right now. I know. And my thought to that is, why? Why then? Why? Because let’s pretend.

Dana Jonson [00:16:08]:
Let’s just pretend that’s accurate, that this child is only saying that to get attention. Let’s just pretend that’s true. That’s a problem in and of itself.

Melody Murray [00:16:17]:
Yep.

Dana Jonson [00:16:18]:
Right. I mean, am I wrong on that? Yep.

Melody Murray [00:16:21]:
Give them attention. I always say that when people say, oh, they’re just doing that for attention, then give them attention. Because their subtle asks for attention have been ignored. So now they get louder and the asks get bigger and more inconvenient. If you want to look at it in that way, give them attention. Have conversations. So this Is where like, you know, ego plays a big part in this and you’ve got to check your ego at the door because the main goal should be the safety and the well being of your child. So there are going to be things that you don’t know, there are going to be things that they lie to you about, there are going to be things that they don’t tell you.

Melody Murray [00:17:00]:
There are going to be things you’re going to hear from absolute strangers, suck it up your child and figuring out a solution to make sure your child feels safe needs to be the number one goal. So you need to be solution based when it comes to figuring out what you need to do next. But you need to keep your ears open and your heart open and understand there are going to be things that are going to be said to you that you’re completely clueless about. And it is what it is. If something’s wrong with your kids teeth, you’re totally okay with saying, hey, let’s go to the dentist.

Dana Jonson [00:17:32]:
Right?

Melody Murray [00:17:32]:
It should be the same with mental health, hey, I don’t know what this is. Let’s go to the hospital, go to the doctor, let’s get you into therapy. I don’t know what that looks like, but I’m going to lean into a professional that does and breathe the sigh of relief in doing that. It’s okay to do that. And I think that’s a part that’s really, really difficult for a lot of parents because you’ve been on the front lines of everything that’s happened to your child. You’ve been able to predict or control or just everything that comes with the care of your kid. You’ve been able to handle all of it. But there are going to be some things that go over your head and just accept that, the discomfort of that and keep going, ask questions, be curious.

Melody Murray [00:18:17]:
I think that’s the best way to, you know, whenever there’s something that’s surprising, unpredictable that happens in your world, instead of going into attack mode or judgment, just go into curiosity. Just lean into curiosity and go, okay, let’s just ask a bunch of questions and then we’ll figure it out.

Dana Jonson [00:18:34]:
Yeah. And I think it’s not a reflection of, you know, your child having those feelings and those emotions and whether it’s depression or suicidal ideations or anything in between, you know, that’s not necessarily a reflection of how you parent, but how you respond to that is, you know, because then you have an opportunity to really be a parent and be able to put yourself out there and say this is happening, and we need to address it. We can’t sweep it under the rug. And I do think that’s generational to some degree. I think that, you know, my generation is the first one to really be like, oh, we should really look into this and give it some thought. And I know even for my kids, they and their friends, it’s much more open. And so I hope that they will be much more open about it as adults. Do you see any specific population where suicidal ideations are more prevalent? Is there a background or a disability or a gender or whatever that it seems to impact more frequently?

Melody Murray [00:19:36]:
Trans kids? You know, it’s still. That is the population that when it comes to adolescents, that they are at the top. You know, life is hard already. Life is hard under the best circumstances. Now add on, you know, the identity piece, which is hard. You know, transitioning from childhood to adulthood, it’s hard. Kids who are in impoverished, you know, environments where there’s abuse, the. The rates are so much higher under those circumstances, too, you know, and it’s different depending on ages, too.

Melody Murray [00:20:11]:
Like with kids, with kids, let’s say, under the age of 12, family conflict, you know, whenever there’s their strife between parents or there’s, you know, and that could be financial issues, abuse, of course, that really, really has an impact on little kids so much more, because that’s all they have is the family unit. And whenever that’s on shaky ground, kids feel that so much more deeply the younger that they are.

Dana Jonson [00:20:38]:
And I think we tend to think, like, they don’t notice, right? Like they’re younger, they don’t notice. And I can see your face, you’re about to explode.

Melody Murray [00:20:47]:
You know, the dismissal of kids, you know, that is one of the reasons why the job that I do, why I’ve had, you know, why kids will just tell me everything, is because I don’t dismiss them, I don’t disrespect them. And so that, you know, saying, oh, they don’t know what’s going on. Oh, they don’t. They can’t hear us. They don’t understand.

Dana Jonson [00:21:09]:
They always know.

Melody Murray [00:21:10]:
Come on. They always do that. You know, a big frustrating part of whenever I’m working with parents is working with parents that completely forget what it’s like to be a kid. They completely forget that their parents used to do certain things in front of them and it hurt them, it harmed them, and they completely dismiss it whenever they’re in the driver’s seat. And then they act like, oh, I don’t understand why, you know, why, why, why would that bother you? It’s harmful to be that emotionally neglectful. You know, when it comes to the grand scheme of abuse, you know, a lot of people think that physical abuse is the worst and then they think sexual abuse is really disgusting as well. And yes, they absolutely are. But the long term harm when it comes to abuse that hurts people longest and that is in you as an adult, is emotional neglect.

Melody Murray [00:22:05]:
It’s not broken bones and bruises, it’s not sexual abuse. It’s someone ignoring you.

Dana Jonson [00:22:11]:
Yeah. And ignoring your feelings and your thoughts and what’s going and who you are.

Melody Murray [00:22:15]:
Yep. Dismissing you, ignoring you, not checking in on you and saying, how do you feel about that? We, you know, we’ve lost our house. It sucks, you know, that we have to move. What are your thoughts about it? How are you feeling about it? These are what we’re going to do. These are the things that we’re going to do to address how this impacts you instead of just brushing it off, you know, anytime you feel stressed out, sad, angry, it’s even worse for your child because they can’t articulate it at the level that you can. And if you find that it’s hard for you to articulate it, imagine how hard it is for a 10 year old. Yeah. Put yourself in your child’s shoes.

Dana Jonson [00:22:52]:
Do you think that? Because I know that we talk about how numbers of suicide is. It’s much more prevalent now. Is it? I mean, is it way more prevalent or are we talking about it more or all the above?

Melody Murray [00:23:05]:
It’s both. It is both. There are more people making attempts and succeeding and taking their lives now than ever. We are absolutely talking about it more because of social media, you know, it’s. And because of, you know, Google. The level of access that we have to information is far beyond more than it’s ever been. And so there are, you know, words that kids are using now that they didn’t have access to before. There are behaviors that kids are taking part in now that they didn’t know anything about.

Melody Murray [00:23:37]:
You know, whenever I was a kid, Whenever you were a kid, there, there’s just more access and people are taking their lives more. You know, women make more attempts, but men are usually more successful at it. And now, and now the higher rates of suicide, the population that is reaching a higher rates of suicide are the elderly.

Dana Jonson [00:24:02]:
Oh, wow. Do we have reasoning behind that? Like, do we know what is causing that?

Melody Murray [00:24:07]:
Just like with most people there are multiple reasons for it, but there’s the isolation that comes with, you know, let’s say you get retired and your identity was based on your job and your job is no longer a part of who you are anymore. And so there’s the loss of identity. And then you lose partners and you lose friends because as we get older, people start to die. And so then your social circle becomes smaller and smaller and smaller. And then, you know, let’s say you have health issues issues and being on your own in your own home is no longer an option. And so then you’re in a facility with a bunch of strangers that don’t know you. And when you’re out of your own home, then your family members, it’s harder for them to have access to you. So there’s just a cascading, you know, there are many, many reasons as to why it’s higher.

Melody Murray [00:24:54]:
But in just not having a sense of purpose, not having social outlets, there are many reasons. And then, you know, the physical health things where your body just doesn’t function the way that it used to. And so you need to check in on people. You need to ask hard conversation, you know, have hard conversations. You need to ask hard questions so that you can have information. That’s what you need. You need to be able to have the guts to have tough conversations so that you can have the information that you need in order to help the people that you love.

Dana Jonson [00:25:28]:
Yeah. When you talked about younger kids, I think that’s always shocking to people that, you know, children under the age of 12 or 10 actually do attempt and sometimes succeed with suicide. Is there a huge difference between younger children and like adolescents or is it also growing in prevalence at that age?

Melody Murray [00:25:50]:
Unfortunately yes. I’ve done a suicide assessment on a five year old.

Dana Jonson [00:25:56]:
Wow.

Melody Murray [00:25:58]:
Now you have to consider cognition, you know, how much do they truly understand what they’re saying and what they want to do. So you have to have a conversation that is age appropriate with a kid like that. But what you’re running up against is the access to information. You’ve got kids that have electronics in their hands starting from when they’re born. You know, kids have phones and they’ve got tablets, so they’ve got access to information whether you believe it or not. They’ve got access to porn, they’ve got access to conversations about self harm and suicide. They have access. And so that means that this starts percolating in there, you know, in their minds.

Melody Murray [00:26:41]:
It becomes a part of their vocabulary in ways that you would not believe. And it is heartbreaking. It’s absolutely heartbreaking. But you know, the way the world works is all the stress that the adults feel, the kids are feeling it, too. And let’s just take it back to the lockdowns, the COVID lockdowns, where kids were away from school. You know, you’ve got kids that they went to school every single day, they say all their buddies every single day, and then all of a sudden, they get picked up from school, they go home, and they don’t see their friends for two years.

Dana Jonson [00:27:16]:
Yeah, no, that. I mean, the pandemic. What I see in my office the most since the pandemic has been mental health and reading. I mean, they’re vastly different, but, you know, for different reasons. But, yeah, mental health is huge now. And when we say that we’re in a crisis, we’re not kidding. It’s. It really is so prevalent.

Dana Jonson [00:27:36]:
And, you know, at least for my field, it’s. It used to be more difficult because schools would say, well, that’s a medical issue, not a school issue. And, you know, when they’re here, they do great. And I’m like, yeah, but if they can’t get to school, I feel like that’s interrupting their learning.

Melody Murray [00:27:51]:
Yep.

Dana Jonson [00:27:51]:
So, yeah, so, like, maybe we need to do something so that that can happen. And now, I mean, I don’t really have to argue that anymore. So I guess that’s kind of good. But at the same time, you know, schools are so overloaded that I find them saying, well, yes, they do have these issues, but we don’t. We don’t have to. You know, we’re not. We don’t think they need X, Y and Z. And speaking from my own experience.

Dana Jonson [00:28:15]:
Experience, you know, when my child came home and said, I’m going to snap, and I don’t know what that looks like, you know, my response was, nope, you don’t have to go back.

Melody Murray [00:28:22]:
We’ll.

Dana Jonson [00:28:22]:
We’ll figure it out. But, you know, I was fighting, and I had to fight and to get, you know, services for my child. And this is what I do. So I can only imagine what it’s like for parents who maybe don’t even know how to start. So what do you see as some of the main barriers for families? I mean, it can’t just be stubbornness, right? I mean, I’m sure that there’s something about that. But, you know, what are some of the main barriers for parents who. Who need to get that access to that help and services and don’t know where to turn or what to get?

Melody Murray [00:28:57]:
There’s so many. There are so many barriers to getting adequate care. A big One is just access. Like, do you have health insurance? You know, it’s so sad that there’s so many services that you don’t have access to unless you have not just health insurance, really good health insurance. And then let’s say something happens. If you don’t know where to look because no one in your community is having these conversations openly, then you feel really isolated in it. You may feel really embarrassed that your kid’s going through it, and you think you’re the only one. It’s really, really sad.

Melody Murray [00:29:31]:
And there’s a lot of judgment that comes from other parents and from peers. Whenever your child is doing things differently than the rest of the kids, it’s heartbreaking. I feel like we need to talk about these things openly so that we take the stigma away. You know, there are a lot of services that are out there. There are a lot of resources out there that a lot of people just don’t even know exist because they don’t have anybody else saying, hey, this happened to my kid. So I commend you on being so brave to be human and talk about what’s happening with your family, because it’s happening in more families than people really want to admit. And I think that that shame and that embarrassment is what keeps kids suppressing all of this. And so they.

Melody Murray [00:30:19]:
They snap and they have these moments where, let’s say that they take their life and. And you’ve got people around them that say, I had no idea. I didn’t know there was an issue. I didn’t know that there was a problem. You know, that’s the problem that you run against when you’ve got other people, people that say, oh, if they’re mentioning suicide, they’re not going to take their lives. Because people who take their lives don’t do anything. They don’t say anything. Like, do you realize how stupid that sounds?

Dana Jonson [00:30:46]:
Come on.

Melody Murray [00:30:47]:
Like, which is it? Yeah, they don’t say something and you address it, or they do. They do say something and you ignore it.

Dana Jonson [00:30:54]:
Like, come on, something here has to shift. Well, and I know that, at least from, you know, the school perspective, too, is a lot of families don’t know that they’re entitled to certain services, that they might be entitled to more support from their school than they are getting. You know, and as you said, the counselors are good, you know, can be an excellent resource. I remember my son in middle school started referring other students to the counselor. He’s like, you know, who you should talk to? And he would walk him right on down. It was hilarious because she was like, I don’t work on commission. But, you know, but they are there. And I think sometimes we don’t think we.

Dana Jonson [00:31:33]:
I think a lot of people think of school as just academics, right? Just academics. And education is much more than that. We also address social emotional components. And when children can’t get to school, that’s an important thing that we have to address. It’s not okay to just keep them aside. And the other thing you were talking about with insurance is having children out of foster care. I’ve seen the stark difference between having. Even though it’s the best state insurance, it’s the state insurance versus private insurance.

Dana Jonson [00:32:02]:
And you know, it is different. It is a different level of care and a different level of access. So as you said, just having insurance isn’t necessarily the, it’s not necessarily great. It depends on what kind and what it allows you access to and, you know, preventative. Because I had children in foster care, it’s almost always they are in therapy and there’s a reason for that, because they’re in foster care. So, you know, I don’t usually have to argue too hard for people to agree they should be in therapy for that. I’ve been very thankful. And we actually put our children in as well as soon as we decided to be a foster family because we knew things are going to change for them and routinely change and that will be difficult.

Dana Jonson [00:32:46]:
And so we’ve been very lucky in that regard. But I think, as you were saying, some parents don’t know and they don’t know when to start therapy or when do you send your kid and do you only send them if they’re inside full blown crisis? You know, I, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. Like what, where do we at? What signs are there that parents can be like, you know what, maybe we should be looking into therapy. You know, this isn’t anything personal. It’s not. I mean, I was raised that only crazy people went to therapy. Right? That’s not true.

Dana Jonson [00:33:16]:
You know, I was raised.

Melody Murray [00:33:18]:
Not true.

Dana Jonson [00:33:18]:
But that, yeah, that’s the message that I was given. So how do parents know when. If they’re not going to just automatically have their kids in therapy because something else is going on that it needs to happen. When do parents, how do they know when to seek those resources?

Melody Murray [00:33:33]:
Well, I think that just paying attention to your child, paying attention to what’s going on with your child. And if you feel like to me, my kid doesn’t want to get out of bed. My kid is not taking showers, my kid’s not eating the way that they used to. Something’s up. Feel free to do some googling, but don’t feel that you have to be the be all, end all of making the decisions on what’s going on. If you are really alarmed and you feel that your child could be in a space where they are going to harm themselves, take them to the hospital, talk to the social work team because the social work team will do an assessment and they will let you know just how acute your child is. They will let you know at what level of danger your child is in. And if they need to have your child, you know, stay in the hospital for a few days for safety, they will tell you.

Melody Murray [00:34:21]:
If they feel that it’s not at that level of danger, they’re going to tell you, but they’re also going to send you home, most likely with a safety plan, which is something that’s discussed with the kiddo, which is how do you pay attention to what’s going on with you? It builds self awareness. When do you know you’re in a crisis moment? Who are the people you can reach out to? How can you distract yourself? How can you take care of yourself? So those are one of the things that most hospitals will their child is not going to be admitted, you’ll be discharged with a safety plan. Typically also what they will release you with are resources so that whenever you do leave the hospital, you’ve got a plan in place, you’ve got a list of therapists. You, at least at my hospital, that’s how we did it. We would always make a safety plan and we would always give a whole list of a bunch of different therapists that take your insurance. Whether you’ve got insurance or not, if you got nothing, you’re going to walk away with something so that you can hit the ground running and you don’t feel so alone anymore. And then if your child is in therapy, your therapist is then the front lines of what’s going on. But child is under.

Melody Murray [00:35:28]:
You’ve got to pay attention to the laws of your particular state. In the state of Washington at the age of 13, a child can decide yes or no to therapy. Now try to get your child to sign a release of information. Now a release of information. You know, the most common use of that document is you have been seeing this one doctor for a long time. You’re moving to a different doctor’s office. You want those doctors to be able to communicate. So you sign a piece of paper that gives permission for these offices to communicate.

Melody Murray [00:35:56]:
That happens in therapy as well, where you can sign a piece of paper. You can have your child. Your child is the client. You are not the client. Your child is the client. And that can be a hard pill for parents to swallow when they realize that they’re dropping their kid off to spend an hour with this absolute stranger and they’re talking about things you know nothing about. Now, if you’re there, your child’s therapist never calls you. Usually that’s a good sign.

Melody Murray [00:36:18]:
That means that they’re not in crisis and they don’t really need to go over certain things with you. But be open to that because a child is not being raised in a bubble.

Dana Jonson [00:36:29]:
Right.

Melody Murray [00:36:29]:
It’s very, very helpful for parents to be in the room with their kid, depending on the circumstances. If the parent is part of the abuse, then no. But if the parent needs to be a part of shifting the structure of the home so that the child can heal and thrive. Be in the room, enthusiastically in the room. Because whatever you want your child to do, they need to see you doing it consistently and with enthusiasm. And if that means going to therapy, being in your own therapy, talking about the medications that you take and how good you feel when you take them, they need to see you. You need to lead by example. Because if you’re telling your child that they need to exercise, and you’re never exercising, you tell your kids that they need to be off their phone, and you’re always swiping on your phone.

Melody Murray [00:37:15]:
You’re a hypocrite.

Dana Jonson [00:37:16]:
Yeah, and they see that, and they.

Melody Murray [00:37:18]:
See it, and they’re going to call you on it. But don’t expect a child to do the things that you’re not mature enough to do for yourself.

Dana Jonson [00:37:25]:
Yeah, I think that’s a very fair statement, you know, and I think that, I mean, I’m guilty of that, too. Sometimes as I’m sitting there looking at my phone, telling them to put theirs down. You know, I think we all do things sometimes that we don’t realize. We don’t necessarily. No matter how aware you are, you don’t notice that you’re doing the same thing. I think also you brought up another point that I was thinking of. Are there specific, you know, like we talk about big T and little T trauma. What’s the difference between, you know, a death in the family or a divorce or a move or transitioning from one school to the other? Are there specific times in life or situations that happen for kids that parents should be on High alert for.

Dana Jonson [00:38:04]:
Because I think we’re. When something bad happens, our natural response is, how can I make it better? How can I make it easier? Maybe I just won’t talk about it. Maybe I just won’t tell them. I remember when I was in high school and somebody’s mother committed suicide, and I was not told that that’s what it was. Guess what? I knew, you know, but I was told that that was not what it was. So I knew what the perspective on suicide was in my house. Right. That was very clear.

Dana Jonson [00:38:33]:
We can’t, we can’t make it all better. We can’t, you know, put icing on it and walk away. So are there specific times in either their lives or in transitions or with families or specific traumas that may trigger these kinds of really serious feelings for kids that parents should be aware of?

Melody Murray [00:38:51]:
For sure. And to speak to your point of the natural reaction to try to just make things better, that’s very natural. That’s very normal. I think that that perspective needs to change. That game needs to be. Needs to change. Because your goal as a parent is to teach your child how to thrive in this life. And part of thriving is how do you handle difficult situations? You need to teach them how to handle adversity.

Melody Murray [00:39:21]:
You need to teach them how to do that. And you’re not going to teach them how to do that if everything is sugarcoated.

Dana Jonson [00:39:26]:
Right?

Melody Murray [00:39:26]:
It’s not going to happen. They get out there in the world and they lose their job and they lose their mind because they’re so accustomed to getting the participation trophy or the pat on the head that says everybody’s great, everybody’s not great, everybody’s not number one. Come on, wake up. So it’s, it’s, it’s obvious. I mean, the things. Again, lean into yourself. If you’re trying to figure out if something’s going to affect your kid, how is it affecting you? You’ve lost your job, your identity has taken a hit. The family finances are about to take a hit.

Melody Murray [00:39:57]:
Well, why wouldn’t that affect your child? You’re going to have to pull them out of extracurricular activities. You may lose your home. You’re going to feel stressed, they’re going to feel your energy. So pay attention to those things. The things that are going to hit you are going to hit them as well. So any type of financial shift in the family, pay attention to that. When you have to move, even if it’s, you’re making a whole lot more money, you’ve got a promotion, you’re moving. Yeah.

Melody Murray [00:40:23]:
That’s great for you. But this kid has lived in this neighborhood their entire life. They’ve never had to move before. That’s going to be devastating for that child. To think that they’re going to walk into an environment where they’re the stranger.

Dana Jonson [00:40:36]:
Yeah, that’s, that’s a hit.

Melody Murray [00:40:38]:
A breakup. Yes. You know at 15 that they’re going to have a hundred other relationships in their future, but right now they’ve only got the one.

Dana Jonson [00:40:46]:
Right.

Melody Murray [00:40:47]:
Don’t dismiss that. A falling out in their friend group. These 2. A romantic breakup and a falling out of the friend group. I can’t stress enough how much that will devastate a kid. Kids will take their lives because of that. They make attempts because of that. It’s not that, oh, she didn’t get invited to a party.

Melody Murray [00:41:11]:
Oh, let it go. There’ll be a party next week or next month, right? Yeah. But this kid is now seeing that everybody else is doing something that they’ve been excluded from doing that is devastating. Don’t dismiss that. The death of grandparents. You may go, oh, well, Grandma was sick for a really long time. She had cancer for a really long time. So this is inevitable.

Melody Murray [00:41:32]:
Death is a part of life. Yes, but you’re thinking about this with the mind of a 40 or 50 year old. This is a 12 year old. Grandma has always been there. I love my grandma. When I couldn’t talk to you, I talked to grandma and now Grandma’s gone. Yes, I know it’s the circle of life, but that’s devastating.

Dana Jonson [00:41:51]:
But knowing something intellectually doesn’t take the feelings away. You know, even if they do understand that, you know, they’re sick and they’re. And we all knew what was going to happen. Even knowing it, it’s not real till it happens. Right. It’s just suddenly that can smack you right in the face.

Melody Murray [00:42:08]:
Absolutely. And I think that you have to lean into it and you have to have these conversations, but you have to keep in mind that you need to have conversations multiple times. Our brain continues to develop until our mid-20s. It’s not when you’re 18 and you can vote and you can smoke and everything is all figured out. No, your brain continues to develop, which means that you continue to see things in new ways based on your own personal experiences. So let’s say something traumatic happens to this child at 6 years old. They go to therapy, they do play therapy. You talk about it amongst the family.

Melody Murray [00:42:46]:
You put safeguards in to make sure that this kiddo is safe. Guess What? When that kid turns 10 or 11, they’re going to think about that trauma in a whole new way because they’ve got new information. Their depth of their intelligence is deeper now. And guess what? When they turn 18, they’re going to think about it again in a whole new way. And then when they become parents, they’re going to think about it again in a whole new way. You can’t just go one and done. It’s fine. Their brain keeps evolving.

Melody Murray [00:43:16]:
And so you’re going to need to revisit certain traumatic things over and over and just check in and touch base and have conversations. As much as you want to believe your kid doesn’t remember, oh, honey, they do. And a part of them remembering the trauma is they will remember the response or lack of response from the caregivers around them.

Dana Jonson [00:43:37]:
Right.

Melody Murray [00:43:38]:
That is a part of the work that I do as an adult therapist with my clients. The majority of my clients are high functioning adults who had childhood emotional neglect.

Dana Jonson [00:43:49]:
And that’s what I was going to ask.

Melody Murray [00:43:50]:
And they were ignored and things were happening and no one checked in on them and no one protected them and no one took care of them. And now they’re trying to figure out, why am I a people pleaser? Why do I dismiss my own feelings now? Why does self care escape me? Why don’t I want to take care of myself? Well, because you were taught that what you were going through didn’t matter or.

Dana Jonson [00:44:13]:
You decided that that was a better story. Right? Because I think there’s some of that too, to survive the trauma.

Melody Murray [00:44:19]:
It’s.

Dana Jonson [00:44:19]:
Well, that was normal. That that is a normal thing. And I know, you know, I do know that sometimes when children grow up in a, in an environment that isn’t really safe and then they’re in a safe environment, it doesn’t suddenly shift it around. It suddenly shows them every single day that what they received from their family wasn’t okay. And that’s just a reminder every single day and it’s in their face, that.

Melody Murray [00:44:43]:
Is such a hard thing. Those moments, those light bulb moments, when you realize that’s why you have to keep revisiting what went down years and years down the line. Because when you have that moment when your mind, that when your mind’s switch is flipped and you realize what you saw, what it truly was, what was done to you, when you have that recollection, when you have the awareness to go, that’s what that was, that is such a hard, hard thing to endure and to, and to heal and to get through but you need to. So don’t assume just because they’re not crying anymore that they’re not affected by something that happened.

Dana Jonson [00:45:26]:
Right. And I say, I know that through grief. Right. Grief is not linear. You don’t, as you said, get over it and you’re done. Because at different stages of your life, it impacts you differently and how you view it and how you view your response and everyone around you response. And it’s the same. The same with trauma.

Dana Jonson [00:45:43]:
I also. I don’t like the idea that kids who had trauma are automatically broken either. I think there’s always something that, you know. Yes, that’s a serious background. It is something to overcome and that they’re going to have to overcome for the rest of their life. But it doesn’t mean that they can’t function either. So I think we have to have a little more faith in kids, too. They can be resilient if they get what they need and they get the support that they need.

Dana Jonson [00:46:07]:
Well, can you tell me a little about your motto, which is each one Teach One.

Melody Murray [00:46:11]:
Well, you’re a perfect representative of that. You know, you went through some difficult stuff with your child, and then you’ve created a format, a forum for other people to learn from your experiences. You know, I went to therapy. I was in therapy for years before I became a therapist. You know, this was. This was a career shift for me. I went through therapy, realized that I didn’t feel as good as I thought I did, learned how to do that for myself, and now I want to share it with the world. That’s each One Teach One.

Melody Murray [00:46:45]:
The things that you go through, talk about it, because that can lighten the load for somebody else.

Dana Jonson [00:46:51]:
Yeah.

Melody Murray [00:46:52]:
And I feel the ripple effect of healing. The ripple effect of healing is real. It’s real. And if you can be a part of that for somebody else, do it.

Dana Jonson [00:47:02]:
Yeah, I love that idea. And I know. I know my son wants to be a therapist, which I think is great. I thought it was ironic at first, but now I’m like, you know what? That is great. You know, you have been through a lot, and he wants to help other people. And I think that, you know, there’s nothing better than that, especially when, you know from where you came. Right. Let’s talk about your book, Mourning the living when the loved one you’ve lost is still here.

Dana Jonson [00:47:27]:
Tell me a little about that.

Melody Murray [00:47:29]:
The book, the catalyst for the book was my relationship with my older sister. We had a really abusive, traumatic childhood. And there are stark differences between myself and my siblings. And Those differences, I believe, lie in therapy. Therapy and, you know, reaching out for resources and people that can help you. My sister became a drug addict. She wasn’t always a drug addict. She became a drug addict.

Melody Murray [00:48:03]:
And I believe it was because of. After, you know, a lifetime of trauma. She had a few big T traumas that occurred, and I think she just collapsed under the weight of it. Has always refused therapy. And here’s where she is. You know, she abandoned her children. She abandoned herself. And I had to walk away from her, which was really hard to do because she was.

Melody Murray [00:48:27]:
She was my protector when I was little, and there were horrible things happening in our home. She was my. I loved her for so many reasons. And then I started noticing the decisions that she was making in the life that she was leading, and it broke my heart. And I had to distance myself from the person I loved the most. And that was a very difficult thing to do. And in my work with my clients and helping them reconcile their relationships with different family members, and mostly it was with their parents. And there were certain things that occurred that you didn’t protect me from.

Melody Murray [00:49:02]:
How am I supposed to sit across from you at Thanksgiving, act like everything’s fine when you either did tough things to me or you allowed things to happen to me? How do I handle all of these emotions? And so the book is about, how do you figure out what to do with this person that held a certain position within your life? And you’ve gained self esteem, your confidence has improved. Your sense of self is stronger than it’s ever been. And, you know, you need to set some boundaries so that you can coexist with people who may have harmed you before. Or maybe the decision is, I can’t coexist with you. You are going to completely disrespect my boundaries. I need to cut you off completely. And so the book is broken down into three different sections. The first section is why is it so hard for us to have healthy relationships with other people and ourselves? The second section is each chapter is a different relationship dynamic.

Melody Murray [00:50:01]:
So there’s a chapter on fathers, mothers, partners, siblings, friends, and then ourselves. How do we navigate when something has shifted in our world with these people? What do we do? How do we deal with all the feelings? I don’t even know what I’m thinking, let alone what I’m feeling. And what do I do? Do I maintain this relationship or do I cut you off? The third section of the book is it’s all resources, and it’s information on tons of different types of therapies and different interventions, things that you can do for yourself to decide how do I navigate these relationships? Because they’re hard, because we get so much messaging that says that we’re supposed to have 100% obedience within a family structure. Enmeshment is real, you know, and so many people are the ones. They’re the black sheep of the family because they’re the ones who are calling out the dysfunction. Right. And how do you deal with the isolation of that? How do you deal with the anger of that? How do you deal with the anger that you have against your father when you’re supposed to love and honor this person, but this person has been your biggest tormentor? So it’s stories. I have stories where I’ve worked with clients.

Melody Murray [00:51:14]:
I also solicited stories from the public asking, like, what have you done under these circumstances? So you can find yourself in so many different stories, and you can say, oh, this is. This feels similar to, you know, the experiences that I’ve had. This is what they did. Let’s see if that could work for me. So there’s multiple ways that you can use the book. You can jump straight to one chapter. You can read it from beginning to end, but it speaks to where we are in our society, which is. There’s so much division.

Melody Murray [00:51:44]:
There’s so much division, political division, there’s division when it comes to mental health, when it comes to LGBTQ issues, where people are drawing lines in the sand. And how do you navigate that? And can you. Are you mature enough to have a difficult conversation so that you can try to create a bridge between yourself and someone you love that thinks and lives very differently? So it speaks to that, like, how do you handle cutting someone off? How do you handle the holidays? How do you. Do you go or do you not go? Do you let your children hang out with your mom, who was historically very abusive to you? Do you let your children have a relationship with this person?

Dana Jonson [00:52:24]:
Right. That is. I mean, there’s so much in just what everything you just said. But, you know, I’m also thinking of, like, the gaslighting, too, because you’re raised being told that this is normal, and you’re looking around and you’re like, I don’t really think it is. But, you know, you’re hearing that or that your job is to somebody else’s happiness is your job. Right. Or something along those lines. And, you know, you should obey your parents because they’re your parents.

Dana Jonson [00:52:50]:
No other reason. Right. They’re just there. And so I think that, you know, I do think it’s good that, you know, in my generation, it’s, it’s. We’re lightening up a little bit, but there’s still a long way to go. And I do hope, I do have some hope for the next generation. I feel like they are much more open and a lot of that does have to do with the access to information that they have, that they’re not as close minded as we were from the very beginning. And they have more resources.

Dana Jonson [00:53:18]:
So I am very hopeful. When you talk about all different kinds of therapies and treatments and such like that, what are some different ideas? Because I think some people think therapy and they have one vision in their head and you go lie down on a couch and you tell somebody all your deepest, darkest secrets. But, and that can be what works for you. That can be what’s right for you or your child. But there are other ways to address trauma and pain and feelings and moving forward, can you just give like, you know, I know you can’t explain the whole world of therapy, but maybe a couple examples.

Melody Murray [00:53:51]:
There are so many different therapeutic modalities, but the overall point of therapy is to help people feel better as fast as possible. And we’re going to teach you a bunch of different ways that you can do that. And that can be the mechanics of actually doing something different. You feel depressed, go on a walk, go to the gym. Or it could be emdr, which is, you know, it is like the number one intervention to handle trauma and it functions or it works on the pathways that are in your brain and how you view the trauma that you experience.

Dana Jonson [00:54:28]:
And that’s the eye movement thing, right?

Melody Murray [00:54:29]:
That’s where it’s eye movement. That’s how it started, but it’s also now sound. So you could wear headphones and you could have different parts of your brain being stimulated as you talk about a traumatic event. And your brain, you’re actively rewiring how your mind sees your trauma so that whenever you get reminded of it, you don’t have a really strong negative reaction to it. EMDR is amazing. Another type of therapy is called dbt, dialectical behavioral therapy. It is so focused on skill building and it’s basically you’re having a tough moment. Here are 30 different things you can do to help yourself get through this tough moment.

Melody Murray [00:55:13]:
This is. And some of those, you know, interventions are distractions. Some of them are remove yourself from the moment. But more than anything, it’s how do you endure the moment? How did what build the emotional stamina to get through Tough moments. Because that resilience is. You have to build resilience. We are not born resilient. And that drives me crazy when you hear about people talking about kids going through these active shooter drills and these.

Dana Jonson [00:55:40]:
Oh, they’re resilient. They’re really resilient. They’ll be fine.

Melody Murray [00:55:44]:
Shut up. Just like you had to be taught how to tie your shoe. You have to be taught how to be resilient. That doesn’t just go out of nowhere. And so that’s what therapy is. Therapy is teach you. Therapy is learning a bunch of different ways to take care of yourself from very simple, which is, you know, let’s just, we’re going to just talk this out. You’re going to learn how to journal.

Melody Murray [00:56:06]:
Or it can be something that’s heavier, something that’s deeper, something that’s more prolonged, but it’s all based on your acuity. So at what level of distress are you in right now? And that’s what dictates your level of care. But therapy is so life changing and life saving. And I grew up in that environment too. I grew up. You went to church three days a week and it’s. You pray about it and that’s going to fix everything. And my thing was I had a more direct route than that.

Dana Jonson [00:56:36]:
Yeah. In the meantime, I need something that.

Melody Murray [00:56:40]:
Is real and present and current that will help me right here, right now. That’s what I needed. Some people don’t need that, and that’s okay. But I think it’s really wrong to dissuade other people from doing something that could help them feel. Feel better. Just because it doesn’t work for you doesn’t mean it won’t work for someone else. And it literally does save lives for people to have access to someone that will reach out to them and connect with them with unconditional positive regard, no judgment, complete acceptance. And that’s what therapy does more than anything.

Melody Murray [00:57:16]:
It’s acceptance. It’s someone that just wants you to win and they don’t have skin in the game. You have a lot of moments whenever there’s. There’s conflict within a family where, let’s say it’s. It’s a person that is engaged to be married and they realize, I don’t want to get married. This isn’t right for me. And then there’s that pressure that says, well, everybody’s been invited, we’ve already told so and so and so and so. And that pressure to go against your gut that tells you that this is wrong for me.

Melody Murray [00:57:47]:
You need someone in a lot of ways, someone outside of that dynamic that allows you to be 100% you. And if you don’t know who you are, they will help you develop who you are from a place that is accepting.

Dana Jonson [00:58:02]:
And I think those pressures are there on, on much smaller grounds as well. It’s not just about, you know, everyone’s been invited. I think that it can be, no, you have to give, you know, uncle so and so a hug. Whether you like it or not, that in and of itself is telling a kid if their gut is saying, I’m not comfortable with this. By forcing them to do something they’re uncomfortable with, it’s not coddling them, it’s respecting that they’re not okay. And I know from my own children too, that, you know, sometimes it’s about their reaction to things. They, they have not been taught good coping skills. And so the coping skills that they have are what does most of the damage.

Dana Jonson [00:58:42]:
And so it’s about finding replacement skills. You know, what else can you do? Because if you’ve learned to do something your whole life that you, that’s just your go to, it’s really hard to get access to.

Melody Murray [00:58:55]:
You know, that’s all you had access to. But that has to evolve. Just like you grow and evolve, your coping skills need to evolve as well.

Dana Jonson [00:59:02]:
Yeah, yeah, no, this has been great. I thank you so much for joining me because this has really been. Been very helpful and insightful and I think will be very helpful for parents. Is there anything that we haven’t covered? Because I feel like we’ve covered a lot of ground.

Melody Murray [00:59:18]:
There is. I’m sure you talk about this in your podcast, but, you know, whenever you find that your kid is struggling and it is a deep, deep situation, tell the school, tell the teachers, do it in a respectful way, talk to your kid about what’s going on so they have a heads up. But, you know, sometimes there are accommodations that your kiddo can have that will, you know, honor what their challenges are. And there are a lot of parents that have no idea. They’ve never heard of a 504 plan. They’ve never heard of an IEP. And that could be, you know, the line between success and failure for your kiddo. So, you know, put your ego on the shelf and do whatever it can, whatever you can to help your kiddo.

Melody Murray [01:00:02]:
And I’ve seen that happen. You know, there’s so many people that grow up with, with autism and they never get the resources because the parents don’t want them to be labeled I’m like, honey, they’re going to be labeled. No matter what, they’re going to be labeled. Do you want to be honest and address this issue so they can have all the positive supports, or are they going to be labeled as someone who doesn’t care when they truly do care, but they’re not being, you know, addressed in the appropriate way? So don’t put your head in the sand. Be honest with yourself. Lean into professionals that are around you so that you can get educated, so that you can get everything that your child needs.

Dana Jonson [01:00:39]:
And I think to add to that piece about autism or any other disability, to say that you don’t want your child labeled is telling your child, don’t tell anyone.

Melody Murray [01:00:49]:
Yep. That there’s.

Dana Jonson [01:00:50]:
Hide who you are.

Melody Murray [01:00:52]:
Wrong with you. Yep.

Dana Jonson [01:00:53]:
There’s something wrong with you. Hide who you are. That’s the general message they’re getting. And it’s. You know, it’s one thing to say that you don’t want your child limited by a label, and I totally understand that, but that doesn’t. You know, the labels serve a purpose sometimes. It helps us understand how a child is reacting to something or how they’re not reacting, and it helps things make sense. And then as far as going to your school for help, whether you need a 504 and IEP, I know a lot of schools who are going to help you put.

Dana Jonson [01:01:25]:
Put things into place for your child without either of those things. If you’re just. Your family’s going through a tough time and your kid needs a little extra care and a little extra something, your school will more than likely work with you. If they don’t call me, please, dear God. But I’m saying, as a rule, they will. A lot of them will work with you and say, all right, this is a rough time right now, so we’re all going to make sure that so. And so has the. The support they need, or if they just need to go see the counselor, they need to go see the nurse, because that’s.

Dana Jonson [01:01:56]:
That’s a big escape for some kids. If your kid is going to the nurse routinely.

Melody Murray [01:02:01]:
Yeah.

Dana Jonson [01:02:02]:
All the time. And isn’t sick, something’s going on.

Melody Murray [01:02:06]:
They’re.

Dana Jonson [01:02:07]:
They’re escaping something. And. And sometimes that is the accommodation is that they can go to the nurse whenever they want because it’s a good excuse. It’s a good reason to have to leave the classroom. Nobody really. Safe place. State. Yeah, it’s quiet.

Melody Murray [01:02:21]:
Usually it’s supervised.

Dana Jonson [01:02:24]:
Mm. Exactly. So don’t be afraid to talk to your school. And let them know that something’s going on at home. And I think it also really helps them understand if your child is reacting, you know, oddly to something they know, okay, something’s going on at home, I’m aware of that. That’s what’s happening. I’m not going to, you know, flip out over this. I’m going to let them have their moment and we’ll talk later about what maybe we can do as a team.

Dana Jonson [01:02:49]:
And I think you’re, you’re much more likely to get a reaction than a negative reaction when you reach out to your school. I’m not saying it’s always there, but you’re much more likely to get a positive reaction. So don’t be afraid.

Melody Murray [01:03:01]:
Exactly. Start there and then as you’re taking care of your child, take care of yourself. Your self care game needs to be so strong in those and a lot of times people will abandon that during stressful moments when they need it the most. Stick to your self care routine and show your kids why having a self care routine works for you and they will pay attention to that and they’ll stop. They’ll start adopting their own self care routine. So just be vocal, be curious, don’t be judgmental. Allow yourself to be human. Give yourself permission to fall apart when you need to talk to your friends, talk to your neighbors, talk to the parents of your kids.

Melody Murray [01:03:43]:
Parents, you know, just don’t feel that you have to be alone in it.

Dana Jonson [01:03:47]:
Yeah, no you don’t. And I think that’s a great message to leave parents with. Thank you so much for joining me. This was so critical and I will have the resources for your book in my show notes. So anyone listening on the go, just go back to the show notes and if anybody says I’ve got to find, I’ve got to find Melody Murray. Where, how do they find you? Where would they find you?

Melody Murray [01:04:10]:
Sure thing. My website is melody lmft.com that stands for licensed marriage and family therapist. You can also find me there on Instagram although I’m hardly there. I’ve got it.

Dana Jonson [01:04:26]:
Yeah, somebody asked me for my Instagram yesterday and I was like I have no idea what the handle is.

Melody Murray [01:04:34]:
But I have another book coming out my Bounce Back plan and it’s a work book. It’s a self healing workbook that will grow with you as your coping skills grow and as your self confidence grows. You will, you know, keep going back to this book. It’s not a one and done. So my bounce back plan, it’s called My Bounce back plan, designing your own healing formula. So that should be out in April.

Dana Jonson [01:05:00]:
Oh, I love that. I will have the links and the information for all of that, including Melody’s website in my show notes. So go there, get some resources. And thank you so much. This is really, really helpful.

Melody Murray [01:05:13]:
Absolutely. Thank you for what you’re doing for families.

Dana Jonson [01:05:16]:
Yeah, thanks. Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don’t forget to follow this podcast so you don’t miss any new episodes and leave a review when you have a chance. If there’s anything you want to hear about or comment on, please go to my Facebook page, special Ed on Special Ed, and find me there. I’ll see you next. Until next time here on Special Ed on Special Ed. Have a fabulous day. The views expressed in this episode are those of the speakers at the time of the recording and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer or company or even that individual today.