ESY, or extended school year, provides students with services beyond the end of the school year for those who need it. While these services typically happen in the summer, they are not summer school. ESY is for students who would otherwise regress (more so than typical peers) over the long summer break or for students whose disabilities are such that they require services beyond the typical school year to meet their goals and objectives.

Today, Diane Willcutts, a special education advocate, joins me to discuss ESY services. These services are critical to some children’s success so we discuss who get’s them, why, how and what this all means during COVID-19.

You can Diane here:

Diane Willcutts
Education Advocacy, LLC
(860) 992-5874
[email protected]
http://www.educationadvocacyllc.com/

TRANSCRIPT (not proofread)

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

extended school year, child, students, services, parents, district, disability, regress, summer, hearing, school, special education, regression, absolutely, attorney, diane, pandemic, progress, provide, individualized

SPEAKERS

Diane Willcutts, Dana Jonson

Dana Jonson  00:02

Hello, and welcome to need to know with Dana Jonson. I’m your host, Dana Jonson and I’m here to give you the information you need to know to best advocate for your child. I’m a special education attorney in private practice, a former special education teacher and administrator, a current mom to four children with IPS and I myself have ADHD and dyslexia. So I have approached the world of disability and special education from many angles. And I’ll provide straightforward information about your rights and your school’s obligations, information from other professionals on many topics, as well as tips and tricks for working with your school district. My goal is to empower you through your journey. So if there’s anything you want to hear, comment on, join our Facebook group, it’s aptly named need to know with Dana Jonson, or you can email me at Dana at special ed dot life. Okay, let’s get started. Today we are meeting with Diane Wilcox, who is a special education advocate in Connecticut. Hello, Diane, thank you for joining me. Hi,

Diane Willcutts  01:11

Dana. Happy to be here.

01:13

And great. I asked you to join me because I was actually supposed to talk to somebody else earlier. And I think it’s funny because I was reading your blog at the exact time that they texted me and said, Oh, I have to reschedule. And I was like, Okay, well, you know what, I’m reading this blog from Diane on as Why? So you know, that’s a great topic. I’ll do it as why. So I’ll just do that by myself. And then like two seconds later, I thought, or maybe I could have the person on whose blog I’m reading

Dana Jonson  01:47

to get this information

01:47

so that maybe that might be a better go right to the source. So Dan, I wanted to have you on to talk about that. And standard school years, or asi is a big issue for a lot of our students that we represent. And I hear a lot of people say, Oh, is that summer school? Is that? You know, make it and No, it’s not. Right. It’s not summer school at all. So why don’t you help me explain a little bit about what extended school year is?

Diane Willcutts  02:17

Sure. Extended school year is essentially services, special education services that are provided beyond what is the regular school year. So in some ways, it is summer services. However, it’s not one size fits all garden variety summer school program, it’s supposed to be part of the IEP. And based on the student’s needs. The interesting thing is that districts are not allowed to unilaterally limit the type amount or duration of extended school year services. And very often, yeah, surprise, I, very often we’re hearing Well, we do extended school year in the month of July. Mm hmm. Or something like that. Yeah. And in fact, it needs to be individualized. And these are services that a student needs for FAPE to achieve a free and appropriate public education. So that’s essentially the reason that it exists because there are some students who require extended school year services in order to have an appropriate education.

03:27

Right. And to clarify that difference between summer school and as why, as I look at it from that legal perspective, which is summer school is for regular education, kids. School is typically either you didn’t do well in your class, and you need to make your grade better or get a grade, depending on how early and or you want to get ahead of the game. So you’re taking a class, maybe that that wasn’t offered or that won’t fit into your schedule next year, but usually summer school is you have to improve your grade. And so I think that there’s a negative connotation with summer school. And so I think that that automatically creates a negative connotation to extended school year services. But it’s not a negative. It’s not because anyone did anything wrong, or that they didn’t get a good enough grade or they didn’t work hard enough. Right. Right.

Diane Willcutts  04:21

Exactly.

04:22

Right. That’s because their IP says they need this time. So for extended school year, there are two legal reasons why you would get it one is that you would regress, right? More so than the typical child all kids regress over the summer, right? We know that all of them do. So but for some children who would regress more than they would otherwise, then they need to have services to make sure they don’t regress or because they need services to carry them through right they need that extra time. So what are those situations look like?

04:55

What would be an example what for the non regression for They just need the services, it could be the nature and severity of the disability, it could be that they’re making progress in an area of learning that they need to be self sufficient. For example, if I have a student who, you know, is three years behind and reading, they have dyslexia, very often districts will say, no, we’re not going to provide extended school year services, we’re only providing that to students with really severe cognitive disabilities. In fact, they can’t limit it to the disability type. And if I have a student who’s three years behind in reading, yes, Why could be needed because of the nature and severity of the disability districts will often say, well, we’re just doing this to maintain progress. So in other words, they’re not making forward progress. They’re just maintaining skills, right? And

05:48

say, when they’re saying about non regression, or is that fit

05:52

in? Well, that applies, perhaps, to the regression criteria, I would say that, for non regression criteria, like the nature and severity of the disability, we need to in fact make progress during the summer, which means we need to put services in place that facilitate that. So this is often a prolonged discussion in the PPT because, or in the IEP meeting, because yeah, districts don’t always see it the same way. But the main thing is to request what you think is needed. And to whatever extent, if you and the district are not on the same page, it’s helpful to have an expert, you know, someone outside make a written recommendation for it. And then the parents have some ability to get it, they have leverage to get it anyway.

06:42

And I think you raise a really interesting point for for parents who do get it or it is offered to you. And there are a couple of points, I want to go back and look at a little more closely. When you’re saying that it’s to maintain, right, they need to make progress. I think that is a little hard sometimes for the school to wrap their brain around. You know, because I do hear that, well, they’re not meant to make progress. It’s just to keep them there. And I thought, really, we’re gonna put all these hours into this child to ensure that they stay exactly where they are. I struggle with that. So when you have I presume you’ve had districts say that, how would you approach that? Well,

07:22

we talk about the fact that say I have a nonverbal students, and we’re working on their language acquisition, we are not looking for that student to stay with, say word approximations for the entire summer. We’re hoping to move them on to actual words. So and why would we waste two months, this is a skill that’s needed for them to become independent to connect with others. Maybe that student also has really severe behaviors, because they’re so frustrated at not being able to express themselves. So why on earth would we try to maintain them? At that same level, we have, I believe, an ethical responsibility, and perhaps a legal responsibility to enable them to make progress. If I have a student with dyslexia, there’s three years behind in reading. I’m not going to keep them three years behind, I need to move them forward to try to close the gap. So absolutely. Extended school year services can be critical. And why waste that time? What about the child tells us it’s okay to waste that time? I mean, there’s nothing.

08:31

Well, and I think that’s the legal difference, right? Is just because we’re trying to prevent regression doesn’t prohibit progress.

Diane Willcutts  08:42

Right. Right. Because

08:45

this doesn’t make sense at all. So then I guess it depends on where is that faith if the goal is to avoid that regression, but you know, we’re also looking at the severity of a child’s disability and I look at that as if they’re going to regress, doesn’t that include the severity of the disability, right? If that’s the severity of the disability, then it seems to be okay to move forward with goals and objectives. But if it’s just regression, somehow those goals and objectives stop they pop, right? That just is not something that ever sat with me, right?

09:20

Yeah. Yeah. And, and it all depends on as well, the family situation. I’ve got some parents who worry Oh, I didn’t accept the extended school year services, we’re going on vacation, my child’s going to camp. And obviously, you have to weigh what the child benefits as a whole. At the same time, it’s the district’s responsibility to offer what is needed and then the family can decide whether or not to pursue it.

09:51

Right. And I think that’s a good point too, because I hear that a lot where, you know, there’s some other reason and a valid reason For the parents to not want to have the child in the extended school year, and you’re not obligated to put them in the extended school year, you’re not to make them have 12 months of school, you know, we don’t obligate regular education children to have it either. So if that doesn’t work for the family, for whatever reason, then not getting services in the fall, right, we still have to catch the student up. Right. Right. So I know that most schools spend the first what is it like three to six weeks actually catching people up? Isn’t that usually what it is? Yes. Yep. So it’s basically if you’re going to go above and beyond that.

Dana Jonson  10:37

So

10:38

now we’re in this really weird kind of place? Because, well, because because schools have been closed for four months, and everything’s digital. And I know that this isn’t necessarily specific to Connecticut, because the whole country is like that. Although I was speaking to someone in Texas yesterday. And they were like, Yeah, no, we’re good. We’re all just hanging out? I don’t know, since maybe it didn’t hit Texas. I don’t know.

Diane Willcutts  11:07

Don’t tell Houston. Sure.

11:11

But so what does this mean now? Like, what are we looking at now, because I’m hearing extended school year more than I’ve ever heard it, because usually, I only hear it within our realm. You know, like, it’s just for the kids who we know we’re going to be asking for, but now, families who would not have otherwise had had school continued the way it was continuing. And we never had a closure. They might not require it. But now we’re in a different place. So what does that mean? Right? Well,

11:37

the first question that parents had for me is extended school year in person, or is it virtual, and that varies from district to district in terms of what they’re comfortable with. And it varies with private schools, and I’m sure it varies state to state. In Connecticut, we have guidance on extended school year specific to the pandemic. And it doesn’t say anything about where the services take place. There are many more families that are seeking extended school year services, because their kids have progressed so much over the past four months, for whatever reason, some children simply don’t benefit from virtual instruction, they just can’t access it, there are times where the student might be able to access it. But the district didn’t actually provide instruction, they may be uploaded some assignments online, and you know how to check in with the teacher, but the child wasn’t getting actual instruction. So in any case, there are a lot of kids who have regressed. And what is odd in Connecticut, is they decided that we need to somehow distinguish between traditional extended school year and what services the child needs for extended school year, the way we would assess it apart from a pandemic, versus what they call recovery services. And those would relate to the child’s regression as a result of the pandemic. So as I said, it’s very odd, to I think there’s also the component where, while faith is different, when you’re virtually learning, you’re still entitled to faith. And what I mean, different is just that, as with anything they teach in school, maybe you can learn it through this curriculum or that curriculum. Right. And so we don’t necessarily have control over the modality but we’ve learned with special education that some things don’t work. And we have to accept that. Yes, it’s the modality. So, you know, now we’re in this position where schools are kind of quote unquote, doing the best they can, you can’t see my air quotes, but they’re,

13:43

what do we do? And and, you know, I think that when you talk about regression, and they’re like, well, everybody’s regressing. Well, yeah. Everyone regresses over summer, too. There are still kids who regress more. And I think that’s the piece that we’re sort of leaving out of this conversation. Right.

14:00

Right. Right. Well, the idea in Connecticut was that and I believe this may be coming up in other states as well, because this was a conversation. That case had the Council of administrators of special education, it’s a national organization of special education administrators. And they had a conversation about separating out extended school year versus compensatory services, recovery services, whatever is due to the pandemic. Right. And the concern was we go into these IEP meetings and the school staff were willing to discuss only extended school year services and would want to discuss only whether or not the child would have regressed over the summer and not talk about anything related to the pandemic. I completely disagree with this. And no surprise, and I haven’t been couraged parents when you go in, to absolutely talk about regression due to the pandemic, and to absolutely make a request, if they think it’s needed for extended school year services, or we can call it recovery services, or we can call it compensatory services, I don’t really care. But why lose that time? If we have time in the summer, if this student could benefit from something in the summer? Certainly, we can do something to make up for the past three or four months to try to get them back on track. Yes, all students progress. However, the impact is so much greater for most students with disabilities. Well, that’s

15:39

the thing to some parents, which is, you know, if you’re looking at the regression, because they’re not parents to the school district, if you’re looking at regression, right, just for the summer, let’s just talk about summer regression. Okay, well, then my kid who has not had services in the last four months, is going to regress more than regular ed students over the summer. You know, I mean, I’m kind of looking at it from that perspective, too. And, and I think that there are a lot of arguments to say that many children will not be entitled to any additional services of any kind. I don’t know who those students are, but they exist out there somewhere. And then they’re going to be students who need ESXi, extended school year services, and recovery services, they may need both, just because,

16:30

right, right. And so for me, when we go into an IEP meeting, and the administrator sometimes will say, well, we’re not going to talk about recovery services, I assume they want to talk about it in the fall, or some place down the road. And we just say, well, we’re respectfully requesting that the district provide recovery services during the summer. Are you saying yes or no to our request? And if they say, No, we ask them to put it down on prior written notice. So the page Well, in Connecticut, it’s a page in the IEP page three. In other states, it comes in a different form. But basically, if they’re written notice,

17:09

there’s a notice that all parents should be getting for anything, any rigid anything that’s rejected at your IEP meeting,

17:17

right? It’s supposed to say not only what they’re saying no to, but what is the basis for that has something to do with the child. So it can’t just be, we don’t feel like talking about it, it can’t be, we don’t do that. It’s got to be about the child. So basically, to just make sure that that’s documented. And if the district is refusing the families, sometimes we’ll go out and seek private services on their own and intend to seek reimbursement for those private services because the district didn’t provide them.

17:53

Terribly been in say, if you’re in that boat, go talk to an attorney. Giving specific legal advice here.

Diane Willcutts  18:02

So okay,

18:03

so if in that boat speak to an attorney, that’s a definite red flag,

18:07

so I said, Okay. Yep. Yeah. And the thing is, is that I mean, just so people are aware, it’s really important to give the district written notice if you’re going to be trying to seek reimbursement, and within a certain number of days, and absolutely talk to an attorney in your state.

18:23

Right, you want to do it right. But I think you’re right. I mean, I think one of the things that I think parents need to do is come to the district with the solution,

Diane Willcutts  18:31

right? Oh, absolutely.

18:33

And they is going and saying, Look, here is my solution. And that is private services over here with this person, and we want you to pay for it because you as a school is not are not able to provide what my child needs right now, whether it’s recovery or extended school year. Right. Absolutely. And then what about the third component to that, which is faith?

Diane Willcutts  18:57

There’s that,

18:58

yeah, there’s faith, right? That’s a skin and extended school year has to be faith. Right? So it has to be your free appropriate public education from which they need to make progress. Right. So for parents right now, who may be, you know, who I’m sure are clamoring down your door, who are saying we’re not getting anything right now. So you’re looking at the trifecta. You’ve got all three components that you’re addressing with and how do parents go about determining which angle they want to pursue? What do you mean by angle? So if you have a child who has not received services for four months, and the school district is not talking about extended school year, and they’re now disability impacts them vastly differently? You’ve got an issue for extended school year services, right? You have an issue for recovery services, because I think that’s both maybe the child requires patience. At school year, but now we also need recovery services, if not combat or recovery services for the time missed. And what they want for fate moving forward is going to be vastly different.

20:11

Right. Right. It is putting it all together. And I think it makes sense to,

Dana Jonson  20:17

that’s a lot to put on the table.

20:19

It is. And I think part of the problem is the compartmentalizing that we don’t really need to do all that compartmentalizing. But just so parents are aware, a lot of districts are doing that, you know, my feeling is that these are the child’s needs. And so what are we going to do? What goals and objectives are we going to develop? what services are we going to develop, taking into consideration? Everything that’s occurred? So I don’t feel a need to compartmentalize, but just so people know, that’s what they may be running into. And also for people to be aware, there is a push from the National Council of administrators of special education and case to perhaps argue at some point that recovery services are not needed, then everyone regressed over that time. I no surprise, absolutely disagree with that. And I think that’s a nice try. I can understand school districts are probably very scared at the amount of regression and the number of students that are impacted, and the concerns about the cost. The good news is districts have received a lot of money from the federal government, as part of the cares Act, the stimulus bill. And we’re hopeful that with the next round of stimulus, there may be additional money going to schools that is specifically earmarked for special education to help districts provide those recovery services.

21:52

Yeah. And I agree with you, Diane, I feel like you know, look, call it a duck, I don’t care what you call it, you can call it recovery, call it, you know, magic thinking I don’t care. What do you want, or what he needs, or she needs? I think, you know, it’s there’s no need to get caught up in the specifics. Unless you’re in a dispute, right? Because I think that’s why it’s important for parents to understand that there are three levels that we’re looking at here. Because a lot of parents are going into these meetings without you and without me, and they need to know that this isn’t just about everybody regressed. Or it isn’t, you know, when I look at that, when I hear that, I mean, my skin crawls. Because when we look at the extended school year, we’re acknowledging that everybody regresses but these kids regress more and need more. So why are we taking this COVID-19 time and not looking at that the same way? Why are we not looking at it and saying, Yeah, but some kids are missing opportunities. There are children, who, during these four months, have missed a window to learn a skill that they may never, ever learn now. You know, like, we don’t think of it in those terms. And so it is it is for us to pretend that those four months just don’t count because everybody regressed. We can’t stop there. We can’t agree with that. Right. Right. And I think that’s a lot of what parents are coming up against. Right. But to your point, I think parents just need to know those three avenues exist.

23:35

But to your point, they need to focus on what their child needs.

23:40

Right. And I think, you know, a lot of this does come down to what is faith? And that is, you know, the million dollar question. And there have been Supreme Court cases where this is litigated. And, you know, in my view, all lost majority. Yeah, the vast majority of right, that’s a good point. The vast majority of students are capable of achieving on grade level if they receive the support they need. And I think a lot of school staff and even parents sometimes will say, Well, if my child could achieve on grade level, they wouldn’t need special education. And in fact, what I have found is a lot of my students and the ones with dyslexia pop into my head, they can learn to read on grade level if they’re given the right instruction. And so, it’s frustrating when we’re talking about faith. When we’re talking about incremental minimal progress, you know, I think we need to raise the bar. Yes,

24:47

yes. And I think I love that you use the desegregate samples because I think it is a good disability to use for the example sort of like 504 You always say the kid in the wheelchair is the obvious example. Right? I think when you’re talking about this kind of progress, dyslexia, it used to be something we never wanted to say in an IEP meeting, right schools never wanted to acknowledge dyslexia existed. Perfect example of, they just need the support, and then they can get to here. So why, you know, it’s about not being smart not being capable, it’s about needing the support to be able to do that level of work that they’re capable of.

Diane Willcutts  25:33

Absolutely. You know,

25:35

and that includes over the summer. So if you have a child who’s going to regress, you know, if you’re saying that your child doesn’t catch back up until November, December, January, then that’s a child who needs extended school year services. Because what that tells me is that they need that consistency of services. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the severity of the disability in that. It’s not that you can’t learn it. It’s just that if you take a break, you know, one of my children is one of those children, if you take a break, no matter how well they’ve mastered something, if you take a break, we’re going to slide back beyond belief. So, you know, but not all kids are that obvious, right. And I think the dyslexia is a great example for that. Because I think it’s also important when we talk about this, that it’s, I think, easy to when we talk about regression, to picture in our minds, a more impacted child. I think that’s what pops up but it’s for right, you have kids with learning disabilities who might not be as impacted, but still require that additional time. Right. So now that we’re in this new, like, digital crazy world, what are some of the things for parents who are saying I need in person not digital, or I need digital, not in person? Because I’m hearing that too. Now, now that people are getting comfy in this world? I, you know, how could we do online schooling forever,

27:06

can’t wait, right. And I’ve got students with such extreme anxiety or social anxiety, now that they’re home, they are so happy doing all their online work, you know, it’s having for them I particularly students who have been bullied, and for them, they absolutely want to continue this, they’re very successful with it. I’ve got other students who can’t bear to be looking at a screen or be on screen, because a lot of teachers want video on, I advise all teachers to let the students turn their video off if needed, because for some, that’s going to be an obstacle to participation. So just throwing that out there. I do good

27:51

class. And in my children’s school, I was doing one of their high school classes. And I gotta tell you, having just six high schoolers up on the screen, who all learned they can do virtual backgrounds, my mind. I mean, there’s one person my daughter was in the class, she kept flipping upside down. I was like, I couldn’t pay attention. I couldn’t imagine how any of the kids were. So it took me a while. But eventually it was like, Okay, here’s the background you have to have on, here’s the expectation. But I, you know, I, I have the same thing. I have a student who one of my own children, who has a lot of social anxiety and social issues, is absolutely loving this format. But we were afraid that would eliminate all the social interaction, and she’s actually been more social in appropriately social now.

Dana Jonson  28:37

twirled.

28:38

No, I mean, I know because, well, you know, you know, we don’t always have socially appropriate activity. But I mean, you know, it’s, so much of the other stress was relieved that we were able to focus on that, you know, and I think when kids have that level of social anxiety when they get to school, they can’t

28:54

work on other things. Right, right. And then I have my other students who cannot benefit from the virtual learning, I have some students who are really severely impacted, they may be nonverbal, they may need, you know, touch prompting for their speech services, they may have behaviors where they need someone to be right there, you know, and someone who’s not necessarily the parent, because the parent perhaps has not had training as a Board Certified behavior analyst. So, you know, and in fact, some of my students are getting in person services right now, because the service providers are taking safety precautions, and they feel comfortable that they can keep the kids safe. Private services, they’re they’re typically private services. Yes.

29:49

So a lot of the private and I think that’s an important piece because, you know, when I tell parents they have to go to the school with a solution. I mean, we’ve always said that right? If you know you have to be The number one advocate for your child, you have to learn the disability if dilemma, all that good stuff, but right now coming to your school with solutions is the best way to go. And that is one of the things that my clients are doing, which is, we have found this private provider who will provide the services and can do so safely. So is that what you’re having me? Is that what you’re ready

30:20

to abs? Absolutely, we are requesting that the district pay for those services as part of the free and appropriate public education, you know, understanding that the school may not be able to provide those themselves do do whatever restrictions they have, and absolutely giving them the opportunity to provide those services, the family isn’t committed to any one person providing it, whether it’s the district or the private provider, they’re just looking to make sure their child gets what they need. And however that happens,

30:54

right. And that is I mean, I have had not right now. But historically, you know, when I’ve had districts where at one district for a year, they did not have enough, occupational therapists, they, they just couldn’t hire any there were none to be hired, I guess I don’t know what was happening. But they just went to the parents were like, find a provider and send us the bill, because we absolutely cannot provide it. So there’s no reason that can’t happen now, and it might not be written into the IEP. But if you go if your child needs three hours of speech a week, and you go and you say I found a provider who can do it in person, and I want you to pay for it, there’s nothing saying the school has to say no, you know, right. In fact, their arguments that they should say, yes. So, you know, I think I get parents asking, Well, can we ask for this? Can we ask for that?

Dana Jonson  31:43

Of course, you can

31:44

ask for anything. Right? solve the problem, and anyone at the IP table can help solve the problem. You know, I think when we talk about which way, you know, the legal terms, I think it gets confusing, and parents feel like ooh, should I ask for that? Shouldn’t I but right, ask for what you think is needed. And don’t worry about whether or not it’s legal or not legal. I

32:07

mean, as the parent, you’re not necessarily an expert in the law, and you can have a conversation, and nine times out of 10, I find that what parents are looking for, is entirely reasonable. And you know, whether the district responds in a professional supportive manner or not, is another story. Sometimes they will say to parents who are being so inappropriate, and in fact, the parent is being entirely appropriate. So it depends. And not all districts. I mean, some districts are very receptive to parent input, but not all districts. Right. And so parents will often come to me and say, when asked for this, and the district said, No. So I guess it’s no or now what, and the first thing I recommend is that they document it in a polite email to the school district administrator, the special ed director, and just say, I requested x. This is why I requested x, I have this written recommendation from this provider. The district said no, and if they said anything really ridiculous, like, we don’t do that, or you know, we provide extended school year services only in July, or whatever it is to put that in writing. And sometimes the district will change their minds, keeping in mind, if it’s not in writing, it never happens. So you could have a whole big conversation with someone. And they say no, and it doesn’t count. So part of it is you need to request it in an IEP meeting or a PPT in Connecticut, and get a yes or no. And if you get to know ask for what they call prior written notice, and then documented in a follow up letter, because sometimes the district doesn’t document it. And then you can decide what you want to do. So you’re not required to do anything. But at this point, you could talk to an attorney, you could say, well, it’s really, really important, and I can’t afford to pay for this. And you might want to file for a hearing, you might want to file a complaint, you might want to have a conversation with the director of special ed, who may have no idea about what’s going on. Right be able to be helpful.

34:22

And also might know of a resource that the teachers you’re speaking to didn’t know about. And that’s sometimes when you go up the chain in a non adversarial way. Sometimes you can get to somebody who’s like, wait, we do have a resource, and that might work in this way. And it’s about being creative, and finding the answers. Right and I love just said that you don’t have to fight them. That doesn’t mean you don’t ask for things. That doesn’t mean you don’t understand your rights. And certainly when I talk to parents and they call me I will say okay, so if you want this half hour of speech Here’s all the things that we need to do to set up the case to get you there. That parent might say, Wow, for a half hour a speech, no, thank you, I don’t need to do that my insurance covers it and I can drive them, I don’t care. But for that family that doesn’t have the speech insurance or doesn’t have the ability to get them to an appointment, that half hour speech might be really critical to that family, and therefore it might be worth the fight. So I think it is always a cost benefit analysis that only the family can do. Right? They need to know they’re entitled to it. And they need to know they can always ask, I think that if you ever get the response, we don’t do that. There’s a problem. Because right there, even if it’s not reasonable for that child, what that says to me is they’re not individualizing. Right? So we don’t do that as a blanket statement that we’re not individualizing. That’s how I look at it, I just say it’s a red flag, it doesn’t mean you’re automatically entitled to it. But we don’t do that is a red flag.

Diane Willcutts  36:02

Exactly.

36:03

So what are the top we don’t do that, that you’re hearing Now, for this asi?

36:07

Well, this year, I am especially hearing, we don’t provide services in August, that our extended school year runs for four weeks starting July 6 through the end of July. And if you happen to need additional services, we’re not going to offer it. What they really mean is our standard one size fits maybe a couple summer school program, and they say summer school, but it’s actually supposedly extended school year, it’s just for students with special education services, and it’s just not helpful. Or they’ll say this is all we have to offer. And I may have a student who needs tutoring during the summer, or they may need social skills groups, and they’re not offering social skills groups. Sometimes I have students with high functioning autism. And if they do have social skills groups, sometimes it’s for the kids who are much lower functioning, and they might not have it available. And so in those circumstances, going back to what Dana said, it makes sense to find your own resources, and be able to go to the district and say this is what we need. But very often we are hearing, we just don’t do that. And and in some ways as an advocate, I get excited when they say that, because that’s going to be a really great follow up email to document that they are not individualizing. And to perhaps get the special ed directors attention, because she will see the email. And she will know this is a potential exhibit and a due process hearing, showing that we didn’t individualize the services. And sometimes they’ll do a 180 and just say, You know what? I think we can provide those services.

37:59

Right? thing? Yeah, I mean, it really is about getting sometimes it’s just about getting to the person who gets it. Right. And and if you get to the person who gets it, and you still can’t make any progress, then you probably need additional help. But yeah, I think that what you were saying about the following up and putting it in writing, like that’s also an email, that’s that’s just an email that we’re looking for this extra or not extra, it’s not extra that the child requires this.

38:29

And to have the backup of an expert. So maybe the child is working with a therapist or an outside tutor, or even their pediatrician sometimes can write a note saying this child needs additional speech and language services, for example, or they need not additional your correct child requires two hours a week of speech and language services to continue 12 months out of the year. And if you have that expert recommendation, again, the special ed directors going to know you have a potential expert witness and a due process hearing. Not that you’re ever going to need a due process hearing the vast majority of parents never go that route. However, the more prepared you are for a hearing, the less likely you are ever going to need one. And it doesn’t hurt to document, you’re just having clear communication. It’s not going to cause any problems. But at the same time, if you ever do end up in a hearing example, I’ll be critical.

39:37

Well and that’s a great point because you know, when we sit at an IEP meeting and the reason we’re agreeing to extend our a parent will call me and say well, they just only do July they don’t do August. Well, how did you decide your child needed services in July? Oh, well, they regress over Christmas break. So we know that they have over Christmas break therefore they need as well. Okay, how long is Christmas break? 10 days to two weeks. Okay, so how long is the gap between asi and school starting? Four weeks. Anyone else doing math other than me?

Dana Jonson  40:17

Sometimes it’s

40:18

just about walking down the logical path. And then to the social skills component. The other piece that I love is, well, it can’t be can’t because there’s no special education. Well hold on, if we’re teaching them social skills, and they need to practice their social skills all summer, how are they going to practice those social skills if they’re sitting at home by themselves. So sometimes for some kids, that extended school year is ensuring that they have an opportunity to practice those skills. And sometimes that’s sufficient to prevent the regression.

41:00

Absolutely. And they can also parents don’t always realize, but the district could potentially provide a paraprofessional to camp if the student needed any kind of facilitation for social skills, if they had behaviors, emotional needs, they can provide the parrot Now the trick is, or not the trick. The heart, the framework for that is that typically, we need to request that the district provide the camp to pay for the camp and have that be part of the IEP. And then they can add a para as an accommodation. The other thing people should realize is even if the district is not paying for extended school year services, I’ll just throw this in, and the parent is sending their child to camp, and they feel like the child does need adult support, the camp could potentially be responsible for providing that under the Americans with Disabilities Act. So just throwing it out there not going into a whole lot of detail right now, because we’re doing this extended school year. So but if it’s the case, it could be the camp that is responsible for providing the adult support under the Americans with Disabilities Act. So look into that if that’s, that applies to you.

42:19

Okay, so there are other options. And this is why I always say it’s so good to talk to an attorney, because most of us will talk to anyone and and will tell you, you don’t need me. Yeah, I cannot tell you how many parents I say no, no, you don’t need an attorney. But let me tell you what you need to do to preserve your rights. Because if like you said, if you haven’t requested the extended school year, and it’s not in writing, and someone calls me and says we have requested extended school year for four years, and I look at the IEP, and nowhere does it say parents asked for extended school year. And we said no, that makes it harder for me. So even if parents choose if they say, you know what, it’s okay, because we’re going on vacation. So we don’t need that extended school year. Now, if your child is entitled to it, it should be in their IEP. Absolutely. Right. And then what that looks about, like can be determined later. And whether you avail yourself of it can be determined later. But if your child requires it, it needs to be in there.

43:21

Right? And and to keep in mind, there’s never any harm in calling an attorney, a lot of attorneys will do sort of a free phone consultation for a limited period of time to let you know, can I help? Or? Or can I not help, and to maybe give some quick direction in terms of what the parents might do. That’s not true of all attorneys. But it can’t hurt to ask,

43:47

it can’t hurt to ask and obviously be respectful of an attorneys time. Because if you have multitude of questions, then maybe what you need is like a different. You know, maybe you need to release a relationship professional relationship with that attorney, if you have a multitude of questions, and you don’t need representation. And that’s something you can discuss with them. But, yes, always ask, you know, because we do have tons of resources that we’re more than willing to share. You know, our goal is that you don’t need us.

Diane Willcutts  44:17

And that’s my goal to write

44:21

your goal. My goal is that our clients don’t need us. And very sadly, we will always have a job. But that is our perspective as we do it.

44:29

Right. Right. Well, I think there are always other civil rights issues that we could take on should all of a sudden the world dramatically change and every child with special education needs have their needs met.

44:44

Exactly. That would be fantastic. And well, then we’ll find other civil rights area to write up camp. So on that note, I think the important information that that I want parents to walk away with is that what What do you think parents should walk away with? When you talk to parents? What are your top on ESXi? Here’s what you need to know

45:07

that it needs to be individualized for the student that it cannot be. This is what we offer, it can’t be limited in duration or type, it has to be individualized, that if the child needs it, we’re not trying to decide whether or not to do it, we’re deciding how can we do it, whether that’s through what the district offers, or through private providers for which the district could fund it needs to happen. And we need to figure it out. That’s basically it. And also to know that services are not just for July,

45:44

the way if your child would benefit from services in just July, and that is all they need. Right? is okay. You know, because the reason that school districts have these programs is because they usually address a lot of kids. They don’t address all the kids. They don’t. And so I think that you know, it’s okay, if you are in agreement, and it’s okay, if you’re not in agreement, there are paths for you either way, but I think, you know, finding out what your rights are is really critical. Because I think right now, regardless of whether you call it ESXi, recovery services, fate, or the circus, whatever you call it, what does your child need? And are we getting it for them? And actually, if you’re struggling to get that, then my recommendation is call an attorney, call an advocate and find out what different paths there are free to take. Perfect. Before we end, Diane, if somebody is listening to us, and what they hear is or what they decide is we need Diane, well, cuz I need to talk today. And we’ll cuts because I you know, she just knows everything and I need her information. Find you or where do they find your information? Because that’s how I started this whole episode was with your blog.

47:01

Right, right. Well, of course, I developed my website address before I realized what website addresses needed to be they needed to be short, but it’s www dot education advocacy. llc.com and I’ll just give my phone number because that’s easier. 860-992-5874 Diane is di me at education advocacy. llc.com.

47:34

So if you go to education advocacy llc.com. That’s where you’ll find Diane, and I will have it in my show notes if you need to go back and find her. So thank you so much for joining me. This was so much fun. It was fun. Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don’t forget to subscribe to this podcast so that you get notifications when new episodes come out. And I want to know what you want to know. So join our Facebook group also named to need to know with Dana Jonson or you can email me at Dana at special ed dot life. But definitely reach out with your comments and questions and I’ll see you next time here on me to know with Dana Jonson have a fabulous day