Dana Jonson  00:00

Hello and welcome back to Special Ed on Special Ed, I am your host, Dana Jonson, and today my guest is Dr J Dunn, who’s a chiropractor and functional medicine expert with over 30 years of experience. Hi. How are you today?

Dr. J Dunn  00:23

Great. Thank you for inviting me on Dana. I appreciate it.

Dana Jonson  00:26

Thank you for coming. I’m really excited to have this conversation because it’s a new topic to me, so I’m always excited when it’s something new. I want to introduce Dr Dunn she’s renowned for her pioneering work in holistic kinesiology and holistic methylation, despite her success in finding solutions for many Dr Dunn faced her own health challenges with moderate depression and fatigue. Her journey led her to the realms of genetics and biochemistry, where she discovered the root cause of her own depression was a genetic variant affecting her vitamin D receptor. This breakthrough in understanding the impact of genetics on health inspired the creation of my happy gene system of genetic testing, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. Our conversation will delve into the significance of genetics and epigenetics in health, exploring how diet, lifestyle and emotional trauma can influence gene expression and overall well being. Dr Dunn’s insights promise to enlighten and offer transformative approaches to health and wellness. So I’m excited to get into that, but before I do as always, I need to play my disclaimer. So here it goes. The information in this podcast is provided for general information on entertainment purposes only, and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you’re listening. Nothing in this episode creates an attorney client relationship, nor is it legal advice. Do not ask advice. Do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in or accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider license in your state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. So Hello, Dr Dunn or shall I call you Jay? Jay is fine, yeah, and I find that interesting, because Jay, you’ll see in my show notes as an initial but that is actually your first name, correct. Yeah,

Dana Jonson  01:59

And I find that interesting, because Jay, you’ll see in my show notes as an initial but that is actually your first name, correct.

Dr. J Dunn  02:07

That’s that’s what they gave me at birth. They had a little argument about what to name me, and ended up just giving me the letter J so

Dana Jonson  02:14

you could do with it while you want that sounds interesting.

Dr. J Dunn  02:17

That was their, that was their idea. I just haven’t figured out what to do with it.

Dana Jonson  02:20

I love it. I love it. I always love names of the story. So great. So why don’t you tell us about your background and how you came to be where we are today, in genetics and your practice, what you provide, I know a lot of it stems from your own journey, so I think it would be a great place to start.

Dr. J Dunn  02:38

Yeah, and I think that’s true of a lot of healers is, you know, we we get into it looking for our own answers, or those of our loved ones. You know, it’s usually the case when you start talking to healers, but

Dana Jonson  02:49

I think it’s the same with special education people. We always have some connection. That’s how we got here.

Dr. J Dunn  02:57

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense, you know, it takes you on that journey. So, yeah, I I had a successful practice. I’m a chiropractor and do functional medicine, as you mentioned, and I had a lot of different modalities in my practice, including the Kinesiology that you mentioned, which is muscle testing. And had a very successful practice in Albuquerque, New Mexico, for over 30 years. But there were some lingering things that made me think that maybe we were missing a piece of the puzzle, you know, because I would work with emotional kind of issues. I’d work with structural, with the chiropractic. I’d work with nutritional, the functional medicine approaches. You know, I had a lot of tools in my bag, but one of the things that bothered me with my own health was, which was, you know, as you mentioned, struggling with depression, lifelong depression, and thinking that it was my fault, you know, kind of like, what’s the matter with me? Why can’t I just be happy?

Dana Jonson  03:50

That’s very common, right?

Dr. J Dunn  03:53

Yeah, and then chronic fatigue syndrome, you know, and I would struggle for my energy on a regular basis. But as a practitioner, you kind of have to, you know, just power through. And even as a parent, you have to kind of power through and get through the day and do the best you can. So I kept looking for my own answers, and I didn’t find it with all the things that I knew. And then the other thing that kind of drove me to look for the missing piece, essentially, in healthcare, of course, this is all all talking about natural health care, was the fact that my, some of my patients, didn’t respond to anything I did. You know, there was a subset I was really successful. I had a year long waiting list, and had very good success with a lot of people, but there were some people that I just couldn’t get anywhere with them. And so I knew we were missing a piece of the puzzle. The third thing that made me think that perhaps the answer was in the genetic realm, was my dad. He died of lung cancer when he when I was 20. He was 55 but he did everything to get lung cancer. You know, yeah, and not help. Not a healthy guy, but his best friend. And George was his name, did the same things, ended up marrying my mom after my dad died, and lived another 30 years, doing the same thing, doing the exact same stuff.

Dana Jonson  05:09

Yeah, it’s fascinating, isn’t it? Who it who it knocks out and who it doesn’t?

Dr. J Dunn  05:14

Yes. And so the only thing that we could say about that is, you know, we park it over here and go, that’s genetics, you know, that’s good genes sort of thing in the past. And so I knew that was there, but we just didn’t have a way of really getting in there and understanding genes or looking at, can we work with genes? Can we understand them, and do they affect, you know, not just longevity, but other aspects of our health. And so one day, I was hearing this word methylation, and you mentioned it in the in the preview there.

Dana Jonson  05:44

Yeah, I’m not sure I said it correctly, but I didn’t mention it. Oh, good, yay. Looking at you. Nailed it. Nailed it.

Dr. J Dunn  05:50

I kept hearing that word, and I’m like, What is methylation? And so kind of did a deep dive and Googled it, and I found this video by a guy named rich von co ninenberg, and it was him talking at a conference in Sweden, and he’s talking about genetic variants and their association with chronic fatigue syndrome and myalgic encephalitis is basically what they call it now. And he was looking at the underlying biochemistry of the body and how genetic variants can affect that biochemistry? And I was like, you know, I got chills. I got like goosebumps, because I was like, Yeah, this is the missing piece. And I’m sitting there writing notes, and I’m like, oh my god, oh my god. And did a deep dive into and back into biochemistry, which I hated in school. It was just like my worst subject, chemistry. Biochemistry, no thanks. It started to make sense to me looking at it through the lens of of genetics and what happens at the body. So if you, if you’ve inherited genetic variants that slow down your detoxification pathways, then you’re going to be more sensitive to toxins, and you’re becoming you’re going to become toxic a lot more readily. And so, you know, when I started to look at things in that way, or how our genes affect our biochemistry at the cellular level. I went, Wow, this is an interesting concept. So I got my genes tested. And so I went to, you know, I did one of the over the counter testing companies and and then you can put the results into these different programs online that’ll pull out genes that they think are important or that we know something about.

Dana Jonson  07:24

And what is that like? 23 and may is that kind of thing? Yeah. Okay, yeah.

Dr. J Dunn  07:28

When I got my report back, one of the big glaring variants that I had in a homozygous variants, let me explain that for a second. You get a set of genes from mom, set of genes from dad, and they’re basically the code to tell your body how to do certain things. If you have a variation from the normal code that you’ve inherited from one parent, that’s a heterozygous variant. If both parents gave you the wrong code for that particular gene, that’s what we call homozygous and it has a much more powerful effect on the physiology. It can reduce the function of that enzyme that it’s coded for by about 70% so think of it this way. Let’s say you inherited a homozygous variant for making lactase, which is the enzyme that breaks down lactose, right? You’re going to be 70% reducing your ability to digest lactose. So you’re going to you’re going to be largely lactose intolerant, right? So one of the one of the genes that I saw was the one you mentioned, the vitamin D receptor. And I was like, Well, what does that mean? You know, what? What the heck is that the VDR? Yeah, I’m pulmozygous for the VDR, which means I’m 70% reduced in my ability to absorb vitamin D. And I went, well, that’s interesting. As a natural healthcare practitioner, I know how important vitamin D is for health in lots of ways. You know, we think of it normally as, like, the bone health, right? Vitamin, yeah. But when I started to research, like, what is the research out there on the vitamin D receptor. What if you have a variant there? What does that mean? And one of the first studies I found was a higher incidence of lung cancer when you smoke if you have that genetic variant. And I went, Okay, that was Dad.

Dana Jonson  09:12

Wow. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. J Dunn  09:16

Second thing I found was your immune system will be immobilized, you won’t be able to fight off infections well. And so there’s the chronic fatigue syndrome often associated with like an Epstein Barr Virus, right? Aha. No wonder I’ve never been able to get on top of that. Had mono team. And then the other thing it does is up regulate the enzymes that help your brain make serotonin and dopamine, and those are our happy hormones. And I went, Oh my gosh, this makes so much more, you know, this makes Yeah, to me, this explains all of these mysteries that that I’ve been rallying around in my head for so long. And I went, Okay, well, sucks to be me, or can we do something about it? What? How do I. Work with Yeah.

Dana Jonson  10:00

So I’m a solution oriented person too. I’m like, where’s the answer? Where’s the answer?

Dr. J Dunn  10:06

exactly. And so I was like, Okay, well, how do I make that receptor work better? And now I’ve inherited a genetic variant there, and it’s slower than normal. I can’t absorb vitamin D. Well, no wonder my blood work always said my vitamin D levels were poopy. Doodles. It’s a technical term.

Dana Jonson  10:23

Yeah, that’s a clinical term for it, yeah. And

Dr. J Dunn  10:27

I thought, Well, okay, how do we, how do we make up for that? And I found an article that showed, like, what are the cofactors for vitamin D? How does it, you know, how can we up regulate the ability of my body to absorb vitamin D? And I found the cofactors. I found an article, and I thought, Okay, well, I’m gonna try it. And so I started taking these cofactors with vitamin D, and bam, my brain came alive, and it started making dopamine and serotonin, and for the first time in my life, I went, I think this is happy. I’ve heard about it. I had never my brain had never experienced it, because it may not make those neurotransmitters. And so it was like, Oh my gosh, this is, this is big. That’s wild. So you know, when it works for you sure, or somebody you love, or you know, or whatever you get, you get kind of excited about it. And so I thought, well, but there are other genetic variants that work that way as well, and can we find the cofactors, and can we work with all kinds of conditions that we had not been able to work with in the past? And it was so, and so I started using it my clinic. We had a whole team of researchers that were like, All right, we’re going to deep, you know, deep dive into this gene and this gene and this team. And pretty soon we found a pattern, a pattern of biochemistry, and then we plugged in these genetic variants, and then we saw how to work with it. And so that’s kind of a cliff notes of where we went with it. But so we started to see results in all kinds of things, and sort of to speak to your audience and your, you know, the parents of people that are struggling with ADD and ADHD, we saw some pretty good responses with that kind of stuff, because there are enzymes that break down adrenaline and serotonin. And if you have a variant there, and you’re you’re not able to break down some of these anxiety producing neurotransmitters, they’re going to stay in your system. And so it makes a person not able to focus well, because their nervous system is sort of on alert all the time. Interesting.

Dana Jonson  12:28

There’s such a crossover between anxiety and ADHD as well. And it sounds like all of those sort of factor into what you’re talking about.

Dr. J Dunn  12:38

Yeah, very much. So, and so, if you understand the biochemistry there, there’s one of the particular genetic variants associated with ADD and ADHD is the C, O, m, t gene. It’s the catechol o methyl transferase, and its job is to break down adrenaline, noradrenaline, dopamine. And if you can’t break those down, they’re chronically high in your system. And the interesting thing about the CMT people that are born with these variants, they’re higher than normal IQ. They’re because of the dope. The high dopamine that they’re born with makes their higher intelligence. It’s there’s some interesting studies on that. Oh, that’s interesting, yeah, but it makes them tend toward add ADHD. And so they’re, they’re really smart, but they can’t focus in school. And they’re, you know, they’re, they struggle.

Dana Jonson  13:27

And that’s a common combination as well, you know. And I see that a lot with students. And so we’re dealing with anxiety, ADHD and either giftedness or, you know, whatever is considered really bright, and sometimes those kids can mask it and self accommodate and get through without really being noticed, until suddenly they hit, you know, that performance cliff, or whatever it is, and then suddenly it all comes out, or they can’t do it anymore. But I find that the children who have the higher IQs are able to hide it better for longer.

Dr. J Dunn  14:02

Yeah, that’s, that’s true, and that’s really

Dana Jonson  14:04

causes a lot of stress, yeah, yeah, right,

Dr. J Dunn  14:07

that, you know, they, I find that people self medicate, you know, and CMT have to move. They have to keep moving. They’re just like, you know, they’re always thinking, they’re, you know, very bright, creative, really interesting people. They can’t shut it down, but it’s just like, yeah, never

Dana Jonson  14:23

stops.

Dr. J Dunn  14:24

They don’t sleep. Well, they don’t relax, you know? They just can’t stop it,

Dana Jonson  14:30

yeah? So what like for that example? Specifically, what would you recommend? You know, what? What is the next step?

Dr. J Dunn  14:37

Well, we don’t look at one gene, one remedy. It doesn’t work that way. It turns out there’s an interplay of genes that you have to take into account. So let me give you a for instance, we looked at the biochemistry. It’s like the VDR that I mentioned. If we up regulate that, it causes the brain to make more dopamine, more. Serotonin more adrenaline. Now if you have that comp variant that I mentioned, we’re going to make your anxiety worse if we don’t balance that at the same time. So it became a little complicated. When we look at this gene, is going to affect how this gene works. So you can’t ever, like, treat a gene in isolation or an enzyme in isolation, because they all interact

Dana Jonson  15:22

like a machine, right? Like yes machine. You can’t just bend one piece and expect the rest of it to work.

Dr. J Dunn  15:29

Yes, exactly. And so it’s this interplay of biochemistry when, if you understand the biochemical pathways, you can work with it. And so I created a software program that could look at these, look at all the genetic variants that you’ve inherited, and then design a diet, lifestyle supplementation around these variants and their interplay, and that, that was the key, because there are a lot of companies out there that are testing genes, but they’re looking at, oh, you have the count, you have the VDR, you have the MA, Whatever the genes are, right, one piece at a time, yeah. And so if you have this gene, take this and it’s like, oh my God, no, you’re going to create all kinds of problems if you don’t understand what’s happening down below it, you know, sort of like the Yeah, sequence of events that happens in our biochemistry. So it’s fascinating.

Dana Jonson  16:18

That is fascinating. I want to go back and look at my 23 and mate now and like, just analyze everything, because, you know, I’m qualified to do that. Now that we’ve talked, I’m being very sarcastic.

Dr. J Dunn  16:32

One of the other genes that you know in this mental health kind of realm is the Mao, and that’s the warrior gene, and that is the the gene that codes for the enzyme that breaks down serotonin. And so high serotonin, we think of like serotonin as our happy hormone. We want more of it, but too much of any hormone or any neurotransmitter is also adverse. And so if you have the warrior gene, you don’t break serotonin down easily, and it can make you very irritable and grouchy and kind of have anger issues, but also some attention issues there as well. So if you had somebody that’s inherited, like an MAO and a cop that’s a little bit of an OCD situation, because they’re in their or they’re irritable and they’re anxious and they want things, don’t touch my things. Things have to be this way. And so if we can relate to that, 

Dana Jonson  17:23

I can relate to that.

Dr. J Dunn  17:27

So if we get, if we balance those two enzymes, the whole body calms down, and it’s the coolest thing. You know, people come back and they’re like, I just feel content, like, for the first time ever, and you know, they had been trying to meditate, or, like you say, self medicating, or trying to cover up their kind of what they’ve been born with. But if you get their physiology balanced, it’s a whole new ball game. You know? It’s just, they don’t have to, yeah, try so hard, their physiology calms down and they can focus and so well,

Dana Jonson  17:57

I think, to that point, I mean, it doesn’t go away, right? It doesn’t disappear. It just you can address it, like, if you stop addressing it, does it come back? Or, oh, right, right,

Dr. J Dunn  18:09

right, yes, yes, yes. The genes are your genes. The genes aren’t going to change.

Dana Jonson  18:14

But if we can change the genes, but you can

Dr. J Dunn  18:17

change the expression of the genes, of how the enzymes are coded for, basically. So for in my case, you know when, if I stop taking my supplements, yes, my depression is going to come back. I’ve tried it a few times. It doesn’t. It is not a permanent answer, but a whole lot better than living in unhappyville, right? Take it full of supplements that have no side effects, that are just nutrients, and my brain chemistry changes, is fine with me. I’ll do that the rest of my life. You know?

Dana Jonson  18:49

Yeah, when we spend so much time trying to find the medications that work, and so many trials and errors, and then a child’s body chemistry changes, and suddenly the meds don’t work, or, you know, they’re acclimating to a new one, and it causes behavior like there’s just always so many difficulties with medication. I guess when I’m thinking of medication, can medication address these issues or these strictly holistic remedies? I mean, I know you do holistic remedies, but I’m just saying, in general, is there, like, would that be in lieu of, in addition to medication? Or how does that work? I don’t know if I made sense.

Dr. J Dunn  19:30

Yeah, yeah. It’s a it’s a good question. And there are companies that use genetic testing to find which medication would be best for a situation in my world, I’d like to see people try natural remedies first, because they have, yeah, little to no side effects, you know. And a lot of these psychiatric drugs are going to have side effects. They just the way they work, by shutting down enzymes or up regulating pathways and so that, you know, it’s, it’s never without a price, right that way. Yeah. However, that being said, there are people that really need it because they are suicidal or they are, you know, an extreme case, and while you’re working on maybe some underlying genetic variants and counseling and lifestyle remedies, to do both is not a problem, either under the care of a psychiatric practitioner you know or the primary care physician that, you know, prescribed the the meds. You can do both. And I’ve had patients do that, you know, like, Okay, I’m going to up regulate my ability of my brain to make serotonin. Can you monitor my brain so that you see signs of too much serotonin and lower my dose on patients so, you know, they’ve, they’ve been able to kind of do that.

Dana Jonson  20:42

Oh, interesting. So they can sort of work together. Yeah, yeah. And we’re talking about natural approaches, and, you know, you’re talking about how you address them. Are there preventative measures, or is this, like, once you find it, you have to address it? I’m trying to figure out, like, what the process is. Are there things you can do? You still need to know, I guess, what your genes are, right?

Dr. J Dunn  21:07

Uh, yeah,

Dana Jonson  21:08

yeah. That helps. Really,

Dr. J Dunn  21:10

Yeah, it does make a difference. I mean, because it tells you, you know, oh, well, a couple, a couple reasons for that, Dana, and I’ll get back to the rest of your question. But yeah, one is compassion for me. It was, like, huge to understand that it wasn’t me, you know, I mentioned earlier. It’s like, why can’t I just be happy? I couldn’t. My brain chemistry was not conducive to happiness. You know? It was like, I didn’t have the ability to make those neurotransmitters. And so compassion is the first piece. You know, when you get your gene test guy, and you look at the results and you go, Ah, this is why I’m that way. You know, it makes so much more sense. And it’s not because bad person.

Dana Jonson  21:46

No, not at all. And I think that that is half the battle sometimes, is identifying what the issue is. Like, I know I told you I was diagnosed with dyslexia and ADHD when I was, like, 19, I was so relieved to be like, oh, there’s a thing, and I can do something about it like that. Just released so much of it. And I would imagine it would be the same thing with this when you realize, like, oh, there’s some physical piece that I can address to help make this work.

Dr. J Dunn  22:13

Yes, absolutely. And that that is the first gift, is the compassion for ourselves and compassion for, you know, our parents that gave us those genes too, yeah, you know, they likely were struggling with things. And, you know, we blame them a lot of times. Like, if I’d had better parents, I would have, you know, just human kind of easy

Dana Jonson  22:31

They’re sort of soft targets, right? Yeah, yeah, especially if they’re not around. 

Dr. J Dunn  22:36

And it’s like, exactly,

Dana Jonson  22:39

but like, for example, I so I did 23 me, and it says that I do not have the Alzheimer’s gene. But I don’t know what that means. I don’t know if they’ve got if that means I’ll never get it. You know, they only can test for so much. So there’s always new and evolving information. So I take it all with a grain of salt. But if somebody said, Oh, I do have that Alzheimer’s gene, are there things they can do to mitigate that or Okay, so,

Dr. J Dunn  23:06

yeah. And so it’s not just brain chemistry stuff. We look at all of that kind of thing, your health risks, your cardiovascular risk, cognitive decline, all of those kind of things. And it isn’t just one gene, one issue there isn’t like the Alzheimer’s gene. There’s several that contribute to it. So, you know, one gene doesn’t, you know, condemn you to that big ones. One of the big ones is the BDNF, the brain derived nootropic factor that is highly associated with Alzheimer’s. And there are three things you can do that are lifestyle that are pretty easy. One is cold showers. They’ve found that that actually helps increase your BDNF levels. High intensity interval training, you know, the fast, slow, fast, slow kind of stuff. Oh, interesting intermittent fasting. So those are easy to implement, or, you know, they’re not traumatic, and they can greatly reduce your risk of of Alzheimer’s with that particular genetic variant.

Dana Jonson  24:04

Since you mentioned it, I’m curious what, what is intermittent fasting? Because I think somebody said to me once, Oh, I I fast between these hours. And I was like, well, aren’t you sleeping then? Like, doesn’t isn’t that fasting? You know, sorry, I’m not sure I understand what that is, and I know it’s a side track. But what is intermittent fasting?

Dr. J Dunn  24:25

Well, let’s say you quit eating dinner at six o’clock, you know, you you assign a time and you don’t eat again until six in the morning. That’s a 12 hour intermittent fasting. So some people go midnight snack and then you’ve blown it, because it’s only going to be six hours, but you can go longer. So if you go 13 hours, it would be seven o’clock before you eat, or eight o’clock is 14. You kind of find the best way to do this is to find your happy spot at the point at which you go, I’m going to die if I don’t eat right now. No, you’ve gone a little bit too long. And kind of back it up and out. Are, and you’ll find your ideal level of intermittent fasting. And it turns out, it’s genetically determined. What’s you know whether it’s going to be good for you and how long you can go. Some people can balance their blood sugar for longer periods of times than other people, and so the length of time for intermittent fasting is very much genetically individual.

Dana Jonson  25:21

Interesting and intermittent fasting means that you’re, when you’re fasting, you’re not having anything but water, right? Are you allowed to have water? Like, no coffee, no tea? It’s like, just water.

Dr. J Dunn  25:32

Yeah there’s and, you know, I think different people have different rules about that, but generally, it’s just water. You know, between the hours of six and six, and that has an incredible effect on your what’s called autophagy, which means our ability of our cells to sort of get rid of the old, dead cells and get them out of your body. And so interesting, incredibly balancing and beneficial for longevity and detoxification and so many other things.

Dana Jonson  25:59

So that’s so fascinating. I mean, genes are so fascinating to me. And I was not a big science person either when I was in school, but I always was fascinated with anything that came to because it’s it’s like a puzzle, right? It’s like a puzzle that you are putting together. And what other proactive health strategies do you find are effective for, you know, children, whether it’s with ASD or or autism, or whatever, the common, what are the common disabilities that you find that you’re seeing in your practice and you’re able to mitigate?

Dr. J Dunn  26:32

Well, I’m not practicing anymore, but when I do the genetic testing, we test for this, you know, so there are several genes that are associated with ASD, or, you know, the autism spectrums. And so we can, we can show you which genes you know have contributed to that condition. We can also show you, you know, your risk of add ADHD, your risk of depression, your risk of anxiety, PTSD, addictions. So you’ll see these, what we call sliders. So you know, from zero to 100 you’ll see whether you’re high risk or low risk on that on that spectrum. So one of the first things that the second report that we give you, if you’re interested in going that way, is diet and lifestyle. And so it’ll show you, oh, lactose is out. You’re completely lactose intolerant, or it’s okay, or gluten is out, or it’s okay, or nightshades, or, you know, the whole variety of foods that we test for, or or food categories that we test for that can really help, especially with kids. If they’re not able to take a bunch of supplements, I get it just changing their diet can have a profound effect on the expression of a lot of these genes, because food allergies can really contribute to difficulty focusing and mood disorders, what we call brain allergies, essentially.

Dana Jonson  27:47

Are they brain allergy? Because I hear this term too, which is sensitivities versus allergies. Does that? Is that a real differentiation?

Dr. J Dunn  27:57

Yes and no. I think the terms are kind of used interchangeably with a lot of people. Yeah, it’s not always an allergic response. It can be a sensitivity or an ability to digest the food. Is another kind of aspect. We can kind of lump them all into, you know, sensitivity.

Dana Jonson  28:16

Well, I think, I guess we think of, I think of allergies, it makes you really, really sick, or you have an anaphylactic shock. But that doesn’t necessarily have to be the reaction for you to have an allergy to something, right, right?

Dr. J Dunn  28:27

And sometimes it’s delayed. I’ve got a weird allergy to lettuce, which 24 hours later, I will have a massive headache and nausea and fatigue, and

Dana Jonson  28:38

it’s just like, that’s fascinating. Yeah, lettuce.

Dr. J Dunn  28:41

Lettuce, of all things. And it took me a long time to figure it out, because it was delayed, you know, it was like, gosh, so you can have, uh, delayed reactions that affect your brain or mood. And it’s a good idea to keep a journal. For parents to keep a journal of, you know, he ate chocolate yesterday and today, he’s like a monster.

Dana Jonson  29:00

That’s a good point, because it doesn’t happen necessarily immediately after, within a couple hours. Yeah,

Dr. J Dunn  29:05

Dr Doris wrap, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of her. No, she was, I think she’s still around. She was an MD who did a lot of work with brain allergies and understanding how it affects mood. If you, if you watch some of her YouTube videos. They’re stunning. How kids can turn from a calm, relaxed kid into this like screaming monster that’s tearing your eyes out and wants to hurt you when they’re exposed to certain food, foods that they’re allergic to. And so again, keeping a record of like he was really calm yesterday and today, he’s, he’s a wreck. What did we do? You know, that was different even, you know, 24 to 48 hours previously.

Dana Jonson  29:47

Or is it just food? Or can it be environmental as well?

Dr. J Dunn  29:51

Can be environmental as well. And chemicals, you know, pesticides, food additives, food colorings, you know, those kind of things can do it as well. And we see those there. There are certain genetic variants called HLA or human leukocyte antigens that are associated with these kinds of reactions. They’re almost like they come from Neanderthal DNA, which is kind of interesting, like our body’s attacking itself because it doesn’t recognize these things as self so it begins, uh, like a interesting, yeah, cell release and a histamine release and creates, uh, problems. And histamine in the brain can cause swelling and mood changes and other fun things.

Dana Jonson  30:35

Oh, that’s so interesting. So when you have a child like that, I mean, I know, like we had a neighbor who had to suddenly take out all their rugs and put hardwood floors in, because they’re they just discovered that their child had all these allergies that they didn’t know, because all of her allergies were, like, not life threatening. They were mild, but they were all coming together. And, you know, in this general, like, not feeling well and all this other stuff. And they had to, you know, go ahead and do that is, are there other I mean, I I like, I try not to use chemicals in our cleaning stuff, but I’m not gonna lie. I let my cleaning people use whatever they want, if they’re willing to come and clean my house, but for me, myself and so that I try, but it’s not always easy. You know, it’s not, we’re not sort of set up. I think in a world where that’s very easy, maybe I’m wrong, but what kind of, like, household things do you make recommendations do you make to people, just generally, for, like, healthy environment?

Dr. J Dunn  31:38

Well, I mean, that’s a, that’s a pretty big topic.

Dana Jonson  31:42

I have lots of big topics. I know I’m like, I just want answers.

Dr. J Dunn  31:48

Yeah, I can go off on that. But in my world, I feel like you can’t get away from it all. You know, you can’t live in a bubble. So I would like to see, you know, the big strokes, for sure, the chemicals, yeah, and I agree. Rugs are a great trapping place for molds and other

Dana Jonson  32:06

fabulous things that we drag in offer in our house. It’s a great trapping place for cat. P

Dr. J Dunn  32:10

Oh yeah, that’s great. That’s awesome. It’s great. But I like to increase the resiliency of the body by looking at these genetic variants and then adding in these the nutrients that upregulate detoxification, or regulate the brain chemistry, or up regulate the breakdown of histamine that can be, you know, the culprit. Rather than trying to eliminate every it’s just impossible. You can’t get away from it. You can’t get away from EMFs,

Dana Jonson  32:39

yeah, you can’t do everything. What is detoxification like? What is that? What’s happening in your body? Because we say that a lot, and I see it a lot on products, you know, for detox and detoxing your body. But what actually, is it?

Dr. J Dunn  32:53

Well, that’s, that’s a really good question. So there are, there are two main pathways of detoxification in the liver. The first one takes the oil soluble, the heavy duty toxins, turns them into water soluble, and that’s what we call the phase one. And it’s it’s upregulated, or it’s governed by the CYP enzymes or Cytochrome p4 50s. So genetic variants there will inhibit your ability to break down oil soluble toxins into water soluble that’s not good, because then they go, it doesn’t sound good. Now, it’s not good. Phase two takes that intermediate substance that’s been created that’s actually more toxic than what you started with, and goes through phase two and turns it into an inert substance. So this all happens in the liver. CYP the phase one is up regulated by the B vitamins, so certain specific B vitamins that up regulate, and that’s part of methylation, okay. Phase two is up regulated by amino acids, and amino acids come from proteins, so vegetarians are going to have a much harder time if they’re not getting proper proteins, detoxifying that phase two, which can vegan.

Dana Jonson  34:05

So that’s, yeah, that’s interesting.

Dr. J Dunn  34:10

Yeah, I find that detoxification is tough on on vegans and and vegetarians, because they don’t combine well and get enough proteins. Not saying you can’t. It’s more, no, it’s,

Dana Jonson  34:21

I mean, it’s not easy. When I first decided to do it, I actually put up on my fridge a a little food chart, like for but it’s, it was specifically to vegans, like, this is how much you should have a day of each thing. And I had a little list and a checklist so that every day I was making sure that I was hitting all the right marks, because there’s no way I could have done it in my head, and I don’t know that I still now that I now that I’m doing it on my own. I don’t know that I hit all those marks, but haven’t passed out lately. So I think that’s good. I did try to go gluten free at one point, and I was like, gluten free and vegan. There’s not a lot left. Correct? No, no. I thought that maybe wasn’t going to happen, but, but, yeah, no, that’s that’s interesting, because I think sometimes we choose diets, and I don’t mean diet like losing weight diets, but, but stylistically, diets because we think they’re overall healthy, but they might be eliminating something that’s super important for us or for our body, right,

Dr. J Dunn  35:24

your unique physiology. And so we look at, you know, what’s your best ratio of carbs, fats and proteins for you specifically, and it’s so individual, you know? It’s just fascinating. Some people are going to do well on a high protein diet. Others are going to do well on a lower protein or higher carbohydrate, complex carbohydrates or high fat, low fat is it’s just fascinating how different each person is on on what’s best for their physiology or their genetics.

Dana Jonson  35:52

That’s so interesting. So that’s the my happy genes, right? Yeah. So tell me how that works. Tell me about my happy genes. And I think we have the story as to how it came to be. But can you explain more about that in detail? 

Dr. J Dunn  36:07

Yes, so you mentioned the kinesiology, and I’m a muscle tester, and so that’s how we really found this pattern that happens at the cellular level, all the different genetic variants that affect detoxification, brain chemistry, histamine breaking down, or making, having, making methyl groups, essentially repairing DNA, all the things that happen at the cellular level. And so then, you know, it’s, it’s a, it’s kind of a lengthy process, the holistic methylation system, it was created out of this. But so a practitioner would take about an hour and a half to test all of these pathways, and then I thought, well, you know, not everybody’s into muscle testing, you know, they don’t always vibe with it, and some people do. I wonder if I could create a software program that would make this easier, you know, that could calculate the interplay of the genes and your best diet and your risks of, you know, all these mental health kind of things, or personality things, and your risk of health conditions, the cognitive decline that we mentioned, cardiovascular disease, etc. So I found a really great software development team, and we built this, the my happy genes program. So we do it all for you. You didn’t have to, you know, you didn’t have to go and have the Kinesiology done. And so it’s a swab, which is, makes it a lot easier for kids. I know a lot of, like the 23 man, they do a spit. It’s really hard for it really and kids to do it was really tough. So we decided to use a swab, and you just, you know, go in there and kind of scrape off some cheek cells, and it’s all anonymous. So there’s no tracking. They don’t have any information about you. They don’t have name, address, nothing at the lab. It’s all by a barcode, which I was very passionate about, because there are other companies that are tracking

Dana Jonson  38:01

your data in the mean, we’re tracked everywhere. So I’ve, I’ve sort of moved on with my life. I think I’m in every database, just my ego, like, then I’m like, Who wants to follow me? But, you know, it’s all, yeah, exactly,

Dr. J Dunn  38:17

yeah. I’m not real paranoid about it, but I know a lot of people are. They’re concerned about especially, you know, going forward, maybe insurance companies get a hold of your data and say, I’m not going to insure you because you have this. Dana,

Dana Jonson  38:29

yeah, that would be the biggest concern. I guess that would be where it would be very scary,

Dr. J Dunn  38:35

yeah. So we didn’t want any of that. So our that sample goes to the lab. They destroy your sample after 90 days, which is another safeguard. That information, the genetic information, we check for 675,000 SNPs, or genetic variants, that comes back to our database, and then we pull out the genes we know something about. You know, the the Maos, the comps, the VDRs and all the ones that I mentioned. And we give you a report. And so it’ll it calculates again, you know, like the Add or your addiction risk or PTSD risk or, you know, those are all on sliders. Then underneath it is this long report that shows you inherited this gene, your homozygous for BDNF that you mentioned, you click on that BDNF icon there, and it’ll pop it open and it’ll say, Oh, good, good things for you to do intermittent fasting, high intensity internal training and cold showers, so you get some information on that report. And then we also do the diet and lifestyle report, a biochemistry report and a health risk and a supplement recommendations, and those three are only available through a practitioner because of something you just mentioned. In fact, my lawyer said, Hmm, it’s too much of a liability for you to recommend supplements, but you’re a practitioner, can do it in person. So let’s. Somebody’s on an antidepressant, we start messing around with their brain chemistry, and they, you know, kind of wax them out. So we wanted to make sure that they were under the care of a physician who’s trained in looking at these things when they go through the supplement recommendations and the interest and the health risks. So that so

Dana Jonson  40:19

do you is that information you send to the practitioner? Or do you just bring your report and say, This is what I learned?

Dr. J Dunn  40:27

No, they connect. So it has a practitioner portal, and the patient says, I want to connect with your portal. And so, ah, then the practitioner can see the patient’s results and and then talk to them about what it means, and guide them on the diet that’s recommended and the supplements that are recommended, and make sure that they’re monitored on their progress. 

Dana Jonson  40:51

So, Oh, that makes so much sense. So you mentioned PTSD, and I’m curious, because you said, you know, if you’re susceptible to PTSD, because my thought of PTSD is that, you know, it’s a result of a traumatic event, right? So how are you more? Does that just mean, how you would respond to a traumatic event?

Dr. J Dunn  41:11

Yes, yeah, you can have two people experience the same trauma. One of them is effective for the rest of your life, and the other one is going, yeah, it was bad. But you know, whatever interesting, it’s very much how your physiology is set up. If you’re already in an anxiety mode, and you add more to it, you know that neural pathway is is married into a memory, and, boom, it’s triggered easily. So in somebody whose physiology is down here and kind of more relaxed, you know, they go up here and they go back down, and it’s not as, uh, hardwired into their physiology.

Dana Jonson  41:45

Do your genes change over time? I mean, I know what you your genes. Are your genes, but is there anything in our lifetime that can alter those I’m not saying like they naturally evolved, but you know, whether it’s experiences or extracurricular choices. You know, if someone’s an alcoholic or drug addict, does that impact their genes in how they I guess what I’m thinking is in how they send them or not send them, give them to a child, right? Like if you have a child at this point in your life, versus if you have a child at that point in the life, are there changes in your genes that would impact what you send to that child’s gene database?

Dr. J Dunn  42:28

Yeah, no, that’s a really great question too. It’s it’s more in the epigenetics. And so the methylation that I mentioned, this methyl group, is a carbon and three hydrogen molecules, and it’s created through folic acid and B 12. Do you remember the whole thing about folic acid? You know, when you’re pregnant, you take to avoid birth defects, that’s methylation, like turning on. Okay, methylation will turn off a gene, so Spina Bifida gene, you may have it, but if you’re methylated correctly, it’s, it’s covered up, it’s turned off with folic acid and methylation. So these methyl groups can go along and, you know, turn off a cancer gene, or turn off, you know, whatever you’re inherited, that gene is there. It’s just won’t be expressed, and it’s so this is a really important concept Dana, especially with women who are getting pregnant or thinking about getting pregnant, to make sure that their methylation patterns or their methylation nutrients are optimized to turn off any of those genes that potentially could result in a birth defect or even autism or various conditions that can be inherited that way, you can turn them off. And so when that child is born, for the rest of their life, that gene is turned off. It isn’t like you’re going to turn on a Spina Bifida gene. It doesn’t happen. You know, once you interesting, once you set that methylation pattern at birth. So it’s an incredibly powerful thing to do. There’s a, there’s a really cool study done by on a goody mice, which were clones. And they they took, you know, one, one of the mice got a methyl donors in their diet, and the other one were fed just a, you know, kind of the standard American diet, basically. And then they had offspring. And the offspring of the ones that were fed methyl factors were thin, they were health, much healthier, lived longer. The ones that weren’t fed the methyl groups more they were overweight. They were more prone to cardiovascular disease and diabetes. And you know, that’s a lifetime, a lifetime of those issues that can be turned off because you optimize your methyl groups during gestation.

Dana Jonson  44:46

So that goes so far beyond don’t eat sushi. That’s really fascinating,

Dr. J Dunn  44:53

Right? Yeah, so it’s an incredible gift to understand your methyl patterns and get it balanced. You know, while you’re. Just stating this wonderful child who, for the rest of its life, you’ve given it an amazing gift. Wow.

Dana Jonson  45:06

Well, I’m like, chomping at the bit here now. So, so how do, if somebody wants to do this, how do they find you and what? What’s the protocol? How did they do this? It’s not like they can’t do it. If they’ve done like ancestry or 23andme they have to do your testing Correct.

Dr. J Dunn  45:24

Yeah, we, we were using, uh, their results for a while, but we found them to be very anemic for what we what we’re looking for. They only test for about 40,000 genes, and so we have sometimes 5000 that we’re looking at and growing. Yes, they go to my happy genes.com All one word, and you can kind of read more about what’s going on there. Look at the sample reports and see if it if it makes sense. We again, we tried to make it user friendly for kids, because I’m really passionate about working with these kids, and especially with, you know, kids that are struggling with attention or, you know, mood disorders or whatever. If you can change that trajectory for the rest of their lives, that’s huge. And then, you know, you

Dana Jonson  46:08

you kind of do amazing. I mean, I think I asked our psychiatrist once if I could get Ritalin and blow dart form, because all five of my kids have ADHD. He invited as funny as I did. But, you know, I wish I’d known all this stuff back then, but it is, but it’s also, I mean, even at their ages, they’re mostly out of out of school, this could still help them in life, right? I mean, you don’t just, I mean, it would be wonderful to get these things addressed before you have the child, but if then as a child, or if not, as an adult, I would imagine this would be helpful as well.

Dr. J Dunn  46:44

Oh, man, it changed my life, and it took me 50 something years to figure it out so but you know, better late than never for sure,

Dana Jonson  46:51

I know so, okay, so happy genes, my happy genes.com and I’m going to have that information in the show notes, and I will have information on Dr Dunn, and I will have some of the things that we’ve discussed here, some of the studies and people that you recommended. I’m going to put in our show notes. So if you’re driving or going for a run when you get home, go look at the show notes. It’ll give you a whole lot of information. What have I missed? What have we not discussed anything?

Dr. J Dunn  47:18

Well, one thing I want to mention is as a special for your people, I’ll give them $50 off if they use the code special

Dana Jonson  47:25

50, oh, okay, that would be even better. So special 50,

Dr. J Dunn  47:31

yeah, they use that code out and that’ll give them $50

Dana Jonson  47:35

off the Oh, that would be excellent. So I will put that in the show notes as well. You get a little discount if you use our code. And it’s my happy genes.com and thank you so much for joining me today. It really it just got me thinking. I just want to get online and start reading right now, but I have work to do. It’ll be my it’ll be my rabbit hole later tonight. But thank you so much. This is really, really powerful information that I think will be very relevant to any parent, if not for their children, for themselves.

Dr. J Dunn  48:07

Yeah, I think so too. I think it’s a game changer. And once I started understanding how to work with these genetic issues, it really the compassion piece is huge. I have to say. I’m writing a book called compassion, and it is genetic compassion, yeah, kind of understanding why we are the way they are, where we are, the way we are. And I just plant that seed if you’re struggling and you’re just beating yourself up about it, if you can just step back and go, there may be genetic variants that are causing you to be the way you are. And there, there is hope. There’s hope of working with that and changing your brain chemistry and changing the trajectory of your life.

Dana Jonson  48:44

So yeah, that sounds like another podcast. So when your book comes out, I think you’ll have to come back and we’ll talk about having combat. What is it genetic compassion, or compassion for you? Well,

Dr. J Dunn  48:54

did you say sorry? Genetic compassion. Yeah,

Dana Jonson  48:57

genetic compassion. We can discuss that, but that does make a lot of sense, because, as I said, once you know what the issue is, you can stop feeling like it’s you like it’s I think we are programmed to think our behaviors and our thoughts and our emotions are our responsibility and our choice, and that simply isn’t The case,

Dr. J Dunn  49:19

right? And, you know, it doesn’t mitigate there’s there are traumas and there are things that happen in life that kind of aggravate these things, but your underlying biochemistry can kind of amplify the effects of those things. So, yeah,

Dana Jonson  49:33

so that would be important to know. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I greatly appreciate it, and I do look forward to your book genetic compassion, and I’m definitely going to be checking out my happy genes.com because now I’m hooked.

Dr. J Dunn  49:47

Fantastic. It was so great to talk to you, Dana.

Dana Jonson  49:51

Yes, thanks for coming. Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don’t forget to follow this podcast. You don’t miss any new episodes and leave a review when you have. A chance. If there’s anything you want to hear about or comment on, please go to my Facebook page, Special Ed on Special Ed and find me there. I’ll see you next time here on special ed on special ed. Have a fabulous day.

The views expressed in this episode are those of the speakers at the time of the recording do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer or company or even that individual today.