Dana Jonson [00:00:09]:
Hello and welcome back to special Ed. On Special Ed, I’m your host, Danaa Johnson, and Today I have Dr. Kyle Daigle, who is an expert in neurological rehabilitation and child development. Dr. Daigle is not your average chiropractor. He has a fellowship in childhood, developmental and neurobehavioral disorders. And he’s changing the game in healthcare. As the co owner of neurosolution, a pioneering therapy distribution and educational company specializing in photobiomodulation and neurological rehab equipment, he’s at the forefront of cutting edge wellness.

Dana Jonson [00:00:44]:
He also has a book out, the Cracking the Code of Autism. But that’s not all that Dr. Daigle does. He is also the co inventor of Neurosage, a revolutionary computer video game that harnesses targeted auditory and visual stimulus to boost overall wellness. He’s a former college athlete and his passion for health and wellness extends to lecturing all around the world on topics like traumatic brain injuries, spinal cord injuries, mold exposure, and childhood development. And I am really happy to have you on today, Dr. Daigle. Thank you for joining me.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:01:17]:
Thank you, Dana.

Dana Jonson [00:01:18]:
Before we get started, I do have to play my disclaimer because I’m a lawyer. Can’t do anything without my disclaimer. Anyway, here goes my disclaimer.

Disclaimer [00:01:27]:
The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you’re listening. Nothing in this episode creates an attorney client relationship, nor is it legal advice. Do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in or accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider licensed in your state, country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction.

Dana Jonson [00:01:48]:
Hi. I am so glad you are here. I’m really interested in discussing a lot of what you’re doing, especially the photobiomodulation, which I’m so impressed I said correct. Like the right. As I went through it, I was really impressed with myself because there’s a lot of letters there anyway. But I’d like to start with just your background and how you came to be this expert in child development. I’d like to talk about how you got to be here and why you’re here talking to me. So give me some of your background.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:02:19]:
All right. So it started on actually my middle brother. We were actually just in a car, just had a medical procedure. Both of us and my mom were driving and all of a sudden I look in the right side and my brother is having a seizure And I’m screaming for my mom. My mom turns around, my brother’s like seizing out, turns blue. She’s in this little Honda Civic, literally makes a U turn on the interstate and goes through the knee straight to the hospital. And my brother actually ended up getting meningitis following from this procedure. And so I watched my brother for six straight weeks in and out of Highest Pass, almost dying.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:02:57]:
And. And I remember to this day, because this was the most pivotal part of my life, is that whenever the doctor walked in and told my mom and dad that your little son is going to be okay and he’s going to make it. And I watched my dad literally hold this doctor. His name was Dr. Wallace. And he just screamed. He wouldn’t. He would just squeeze and wouldn’t let him go.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:03:15]:
And I watched that, and I was like, I want to be that guy one day. So I actually had a lot of sicknesses of the child, really bad allergies. I had asthma, had ADHD. I was medicated for 18 years up until I actually was undergrad. And I actually started doing research and I got exposed to nutrition and believe it or not, that I actually started reading about food sensitivities, got off of drinking milk, I completely no longer have, had to use an albuterol pump and a daily allergy shot. And I’m actually off of my methamphetamine medication by altering my diet. So that made me basically really start looking into biochemistry. And in the pursuit of biochemistry, vitamin minerals run all of our chemical systems in our body.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:04:04]:
My personal opinion is that we’re not treated from a basically nutritional deficiency standpoint. So then had to figure out alternative means into not going the traditional route as being a medical doctor. That led me into actually being a chiropractor. And the reason why I wanted to be a chiropractor was because at the time when I was in undergrad, chiropractors did. I mean, a physical therapist did not have direct access to the general public. You can actually have to go be a chiropractor. And, you know, chiropractors could you have direct access. So in the mix of that, I really fell in love with the brain.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:04:37]:
And I really wanted to work on how the brain and nutrition worked. And then, so then my background, I met a doctor named Dr. Brandon Brock, who really kind of highlighted traumatic brain injury rehab to me and vagus nerve stimulation. And then I really wanted to kind of figure out how to fix my adhd. So then I started reading books on childhood development, primitive reflexes. And then I Came across an incredible mentor of mine, Dr. Robert Malilo, who wrote a book called Disconnected Kids. I actually started doing primitive reflex integration work on myself, and it was completely life changing.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:05:11]:
And then, boom. That basically led me into a background in nutrition. From a personal standpoint, studying the nervous system in chiropractic school, but then actually studying traumatic brain injuries and then looking into primitive reflexes. That then brought me to really a crazy fascination to, you know, have a very kind of wide demographic of patients. But that, in the, you know, long roundabout, is how I got to where I’m at today.

Dana Jonson [00:05:35]:
I’m fascinated by the brain as well, and I’m always interested. And we. It’s always evolving. And I was a psychology major in undergrad, which was a million years ago. But I still. I love all the studies have been coming out, particularly in neurobiology and neuroscience. It’s just. It’s really riveting to me.

Dana Jonson [00:05:53]:
Now that we know I can say photobiomodulation. I’m not sure I know exactly what it is, so could you talk a little bit about what it is? I know the acronym is pvm. And how does that work in neurological rehabilitation?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:06:08]:
Yeah. Okay. So when you really break the word down, you know, in medical terminology, the words are always really, really long. So photo broken down means light, bio means life, and then modulation is changing. So basically, photobiomodulation means changing life with light. So really, in a very simplistic way, photobiomodulation is basically light therapy. What really got me into photobiomodulation was actually looking at the study in physics, and Albert Einstein came up with this amazing equation. E equals MC squared, right? Energy equals mass times C squared, the speed of light.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:06:50]:
And because of my ADD as a child or adhd, what happened is I always want to know the answer to why to everything. That equation really stuck out to me. Then what happened is I broke it down into very simplistic terms. Energy equals mass, but mass times every single cell in the entire body and every atom times not just light, but the variation of all the colors. And when I look at a human being, we’re really predominantly exposed to really one predominant color, and it’s actually blue. Because we live indoors, we’re in front of computer screens all day long. And so what happens is, if the light exposure is only one color and we don’t get exposed to all the other variations of color from the spectrum, then what happens is our energy levels can be altered. We can either see ADHD and autistic kids, a lot of hyperactivity or you can even see people who have chronic viral infections have really, really low energy.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:07:54]:
When you really look at a lot of these kids on the spectrum, they’re exposed to iPads and tablets. They don’t really typically gravitate to go outside and ride a bicycle and play outside in the sun. And so when you break that E equals MC squared, they’re only really exposed to about 90% of blue light. And you can actually photobiomodulation, you can literally change or modulate light exposure with light. And that’s one of the amazing things about what I do is I use a lot of red and also violet light, which are colors that these kids and even patients aren’t really being exposed to. And so it’s very interesting that when someone starts looking at benefits of variations of colors is that different colors have different benefits. And the actual color red is shown to have crazy, crazy benefits. Red light can act as an anti inflammatory, which a lot of kids on the spectrum have a lot of inflammation, specifically in their GI system and also in their sinuses.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:08:56]:
Also red light therapy does something called vasodilation. It can actually improve blood flow. And if you improve blood flow, you can actually improve function. And when you basically red light also activates something called mitochondria, which are actually these little bitty cells in the body that produce energy. And then also red light therapy is phenomenal for just basically even helping out with sleep. So you know, God basically made the sun for something called a circadian rhythm. So basically, literally sunlight or sunrise and sunsets, that light exposure to the back of the eye actually calculates calibrate your circadian than your sleep cycling. Which is why people who like myself, I go work in the Middle east and if I don’t get proper sunlight, I could actually have jet lag and have sleep disturbances.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:09:44]:
And so what’s happening is, is kids, especially on the spectrum, they’re not waking up watching sunrise and sunsets and they’re being exposed to TV all the time and for monitors and cell phones. So if they’re not actually using something that scientifically, meaning the circadian rhythm, our bodies are designed based off of the light cycle and they’re not getting exposed to that. That can have implications, for example, carbohydrate metabolism. These kids don’t break down carbs because they eat carbs like crazy buttery noodles, crackers, pizza chips. The other aspect of that stuff is these kids typically have what’s called high beta waves and the brain functions off of brainwaves. So that’s One interesting thing that sleep restoration is actually done from light exposure. And so the only way to basically induce that is by actually using light. And we use photobiomodulation to help out with these kids on the spectrum or even other developmental delays.

Dana Jonson [00:10:45]:
Wow, that is really interesting. And so I guess as you said, they’re not getting up and looking at sunsets and sunrises. So presumably for kids who get up in the dark and go to school and they’re in a classroom all day, if they don’t. Can you get enough of that if you’re in a classroom with a window? Or does it really need to be outside? I know my doctor told me that I should go outside and sit in the sun for 15 minutes a day, regardless. I’m in Connecticut, so we don’t always have sun. But you know that we should go outside and be outside for 15 minutes, right?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:11:13]:
I would be 100% support that, doctor. Because what’s really interesting is when you start running CBC. So basically, blood draws on these kids, they actually have low vitamin D. And if you look at like autism and vitamin D, there’s a high, high correlation to that. Where do you get vitamin E from the sun. And that’s very interesting. Also get it from a food source that, you know, these kids don’t eat the foods like fish that promote that. And then the other interesting thing is just to basically ask you this question is if you go to the beach, what happens is you feel amazing.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:11:47]:
What happens is the sun actually can release something called beta endorphins, which actually make you feel good. And the other aspect is that people who get sick who actually literally go on a vacation to the beach and they’re outside in the sun, guess what happens to their energy and their infections and stuff. They actually, their energy levels go up and they actually start to feel better. Well, vitamin D is produced from the sun. So if you’re outside in the sun, you get this natural increase in your immune system. But there’s another very interesting thing that got me is that there was a study that was actually done in a village in Africa. And what they did is they actually did pre and post stool samples of these patients and they gave this Village People American Food, candy bars, Fantasugar, all these highly carbohydrates. So when they did post stool analysis, they didn’t see anything really change.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:12:41]:
There was no yeast overgrowth and inflammatory markers. And the doctors were astonished. But the answer to that was actually, is that these people actually run around actually without chirps and they’re Actually getting sunlight to the actual abdomen area. And in microbiology lab, we actually use violet light, UV light to actually sanitize the actual desk that we’re working with microorganisms. Well, guess what? Actually the sun also produces a violet light, which is why we get UV exposure and we can even burn. So it’s very interesting that we, in our practice, we basically substitute variations of light through photobiomodulation in red and violet light to actually help these kids basically over overall, comprehensively, you know, get better from that little analogy that.

Dana Jonson [00:13:33]:
Well, and thank you for supporting my one week at the beach a year. So it’s my favorite week of the year. And you’re right, I feel amazing the entire time. So now I can justify it. That is just really, it makes sense. And now you’re saying, you know, the, the population that was studied, they, they run around with their shirts off, so they have their abdomen. So is it important that that light comes to the specific part of the body you’re trying to address? Or may I have a light mask that I put on my face when I remember to charge it and use it? It’s supposed to be good for, you know, my, my anti aging creams or whatever it is I’m using that week. So is that the same idea? I’m sure yours is a different level of what I’m using.

Dana Jonson [00:14:11]:
But you know, what, what kind of intake do, do people need for it to be effective?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:14:17]:
My main thing is I use red light actually over really arteries. And when we look at the brain, for example, there’s really two main blood supplies. We have our carotid artery right here in the front of our neck. That’s going to give blood flow to the front 2/3 of the brain. And then you actually have your vertebral artery, which runs behind the actual neck, inside the spine. That’s going to supply blood supply to the brain stem, which is what controls our organ functions, and then our vision and our parietal lobe, which is our map of our body. So I really like using red light exposure to the carotids and then also to the base of the neck, the back of the neck. And it’s very interesting because if you ever use like a red light panel and you literally get in front of it, what happens is you might notice that your veins and arteries, they kind of surface to the skin because our veins and arteries have a receptor called a chromophore for light.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:15:09]:
So when you get exposed to red light, it actually causes vasodilation, which opens up blood Flow, and it gets better blood flow, better blood flow, better function. So I really like using the carotid arteries, the back of the neck for the vertebral arteries. A lot. A lot of these kids, especially on the spectrum, they actually have a lot of gastrointestinal inflammation. So I love to do a lot. A lot of red light, actually, over the whole stomach, the abdomen area. The next thing is actually is the thoracic or the spine again, hence I am having a chiropractic degree. But the spine, which is actually where the nerves are going to also help supply energy to organ functions.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:15:49]:
Then I like the hands, the feet, and then the face. Those are my very basic applications. We have the neck, front of the neck, back of the neck, abdominal area, hands, bottom of the feet, face and back. And then there’s also something called transcranial photobiomodulation. Big fancy word, but basically red light actually onto the scalp, which is actually, you know, your scalp has a chromophore light receptor as well. But again, from a clinical speaking on something like this, you know, unless someone’s, you know, a doctor, you know, we typically stay, you know, below the neck. So basically those are my favorite applications.

Dana Jonson [00:16:32]:
That’s fascinating. Is this the same kind of light? I’m sure it’s different, but that, like, grow lights, like, you know, when you get grow lights to do seedlings or something that you have to do red or blue, is that the same or is it a totally different kind of light?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:16:46]:
You know, I’m not familiar with that.

Dana Jonson [00:16:48]:
Okay.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:16:49]:
Yeah, I’m not familiar with that.

Dana Jonson [00:16:50]:
I’m always trying to grow stuff. I can’t. I’m horrible at growing things, but I’m always trying.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:16:55]:
You know, our lights are, you know, we predominantly use red, so we use LED and we have diodes. So we use, like, panels. We, you know, we sell those red panels as well as handheld lasers that are more specific and more, you know, a little bit more powerful than these red light panels.

Dana Jonson [00:17:15]:
What kind of exposure is necessary to make a difference? Like, if I’m talking about. So my face thing that I have, it’s just on my face. Is this an ongoing thing? Is it something that has to happen repetitively? And is it, you know, did the kids spend a day with you or an hour with you? How does that workout?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:17:33]:
Yeah, well, there’s lots of ways, I think, that, you know, go back to what your doctor mentioned about being outside in the sun for 10 to 15 minutes, and because of kids are in school, the weather changes and stuff like that. Maybe not time in the year, not being outside in the sun. So I typically at least Recommend Anywhere between 10 and 15, 20 minutes at least of daily use of red light exposure. My clinic, I have very. You have a very hierarchy of how I treat patients. So we have patients that come in and do therapy for like an hour. And so those patients could probably get red light for about 10 to 15 minutes. And then the way I really work is something called an intensive program where I’m actually working on kids for anywhere between three to four hours a day.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:18:19]:
And they’re actually going to get quite a bit of red light exposure, a little bit more than 15, 20 minutes. But really it’s. I base a lot of red light exposure based off of running stool samples and blood work by actually looking at stuff like C. Reactive protein, esr, homocysteine, inflammatory markers, and then looking at stool samples, looking at like caliprotectin, different, you know, basically looking at, you know, their inflammatory. So the more inflammation that someone has, the more red light therapy that we actually use. So it’s really kind of based off of like a per patient case, but in an average for everyone listening, at least anywhere between 10 and 15 minutes, just like your doctor mentioned, of red light exposure.

Dana Jonson [00:19:04]:
Interesting. Do you work with other lights or do primarily just red?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:19:08]:
Red and violet?

Dana Jonson [00:19:10]:
Red and violet. All right, you mentioned the violet. That’s fascinating.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:19:13]:
Red, violet, and then I use blue on a lot of patients with spasticity. So people who maybe have Parkinson’s or someone who maybe had a stroke or something, or tbi, those are my three colors. And then green, we use green as well. So but I typically. Red, violet and a little bit of blue. And a little bit of green.

Dana Jonson [00:19:33]:
Okay, interesting. And what does the green do?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:19:36]:
Green can actually help out with like fat, Fat metabolism. Yeah. I mean, green, it’s wild to start seeing what all these different colors can actually do. And then blue, I’ve used blue for like muscle activation.

Dana Jonson [00:19:49]:
Oh, wow. No, it really is fascinating. I mean, I really haven’t thought about it other than I have this mask that I put on and it’s got light and I know it’s good for me and that’s about it. And my doctor said to sit outside 15 minutes a day. So what’s the science behind this? Is there science behind this? Is it backed by peer reviewed studies? Is this something that is legit, for lack of a better term?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:20:13]:
Yeah, no, there’s a lot. There’s, there’s. If you go type in. Because the thing is, you type in like Red light therapy, it’s not really going to pop up for your scientific journals however, photopiping. So really if you go to Google or you go to like with doctors, we’re going to look at PubMed. So in PubMed you’re going to type in photobiomodulation and Autism, Photobiomodulation and TBIs, Photobiomodulation and Spinal cord injuries. And there’s a lot, a lot of studies with, you know, anti inflammatories helping to boost the immune function, helping out with perception, helping out with mood. I mean yes, sleep insomnia, there’s a lot.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:20:51]:
But you have to type in photobiomodulation and the benefits and then also to answer the whole other question too. But even like green light. So green light also has helped with patients with like weight loss. It also is an anti inflammatory. Blue light has been shown to actually increase alertness. So you have patients that you know, for example, like if you get in front of a screen like this right here, blue light exposure can actually like wake you up. So alertness.

Dana Jonson [00:21:18]:
Oh, so that’s why they say not to be on your screens before you go to bed because of the blue light. That makes sense.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:21:25]:
Correct? Yeah. And really it’s pretty neat. So in the back of the retina we have something called amacrine cells which can actually be stimulated by light exposure. So there’s a lot of research now that’s actually going to color therapy. Like for example, there’s colored glasses, there’s a whole technique out there, even called Erling lenses where people literally like with dyslexia can put on like pink glasses or red glasses and then kids don’t have the letters, you know, backwards.

Dana Jonson [00:21:54]:
That’s fascinating.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:21:56]:
Actually coming from color lenses, that is fascinating. Very fascinating.

Dana Jonson [00:22:01]:
I never heard about that for dyslexia, but that’s something I have to look into. So it’s just the color of the lens impacts how you view it, how your retina responds to the stimuli.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:22:11]:
It’s insane. I mean I literally do this all the time. When I actually do my evaluation, I do it with a pulse ox and I literally have different colors and I’ll try different colored glasses and I can actually watch someone’s heart rate actually calm down by literally using the light to the actual colored glasses to the eyes.

Dana Jonson [00:22:30]:
Oh my gosh. That’s fascinating. That’s really interesting. So what is neurosage? What is that?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:22:39]:
Yeah, so NeuroStage was a computer software program that I helped co develop and really what happened is it really came from observing kids on the spectrum because these kids would actually come to see me and the parents would always mention they’re like, yeah, I just like, can’t get my kid off of the tablet. He’s always on YouTube.

Dana Jonson [00:22:56]:
I’m familiar with that concept. Yes.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:22:59]:
So really what I was doing is I was like looking at these kids and I was thinking, what if I basically made a computer software program that would actually use colors basically in the form of visual and then also auditory. Because the brain likes different things. For example, like the right side, the brain, which calms kids down, deals with their posture regulation and suppresses involuntary movements, typically has more of like a, you know, stimulation to blues and greens. And then you see the left frontal lobe, which is going to deal with like your speech centers or activation memory. Math. Science has been shown to respond from red and yellow. And so I was like, what if I can basically start making video games based off of colors in rhythmic music because there’s different frequencies or different sounds. Like, for example, melodic music can activate the right side of the brain to be calming, which is why they use interactive metronomes to help calm kids down with anxiety versus techno.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:24:02]:
High fade, fast fading music, which is going to activate the left frontal lobe and then there’s eye movement. So for example, in stroke rehab, someone has a stroke and it’s on the right side of the brain, the parietal lobe, they can’t track to the right because the function of that actually deals with eye movements to the right or something. Cicada, which are quick, fast eye movements with a frontal loop. And so really I took neuroscience and basically put it into actually video games by using color, sound and eye movements and then a reward system. And then that right there was basically, now I can get an autistic child that now wants to come to therapy because he’s actually playing video games that he loves. So I’m using that initial sensory stimulation, which is a reward system to that kid to then now get his brain stimulated. And then I can get in and start doing therapy.

Dana Jonson [00:24:53]:
Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, because I mean, you’re right. I mean, the video games, I’ve a lot of children and so the video games are always the issue. And I remember my daughter did neurofeedback and that was watching a movie. It was like the only thing that could get her to sit still for two minutes and did that, I mean, which is not light based, but it’s, you know, the same kind of concept, I guess, of, of addressing the brain and manipulating the Brain function. What was. I just had a question. Oh.

Dana Jonson [00:25:22]:
And then with trauma, I think what you just said about the eye movements, I know there’s some kind of therapy related to the eye movements for trauma. Is there a light equivalency to that?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:25:35]:
So edmr.

Dana Jonson [00:25:36]:
Edmr, yes, edmr.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:25:38]:
So there’s a lot of eye movements and very interesting that, you know, I work with a lot of special force guys, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, Combat divers and especially who are in the war and they come and see me and, and we actually literally have our patients do video games. But it’s very interesting because horizontal eye movements actually help stimulate a part of the brain called the pons, which actually releases serotonin. So serotonin is a mood relaxation and then it’s also converted to melatonin for sleep. Then you have vertical eye movements which activate the midbrain, which is what’s going to pump out dopamine. That’s why people like to scroll on their cell phone and they get lost in doing that because they just get a dopamine rush. So you can actually use eye movements to stimulate different parts of the brain and then again you layer it in with colors and sound and then you can start getting more precise. And I brought in a bunch of team members. So Dr.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:26:32]:
Robert Belillo, who published Dischended Kids, he has a textbook over childhood development. Dr. Brandon Brock, who’s a traumatic brain injury specialist. And then I brought a whole software team of actually computer programmers and AI guys and we just basically literally got into a room and nerd it out. And then we basically. Video games for really a lot of, you know, they’re considered wellness because again, they’re not like FDA approved video games, but they’re a sensory experience where their games designed to basically help enhance overall wellness.

Dana Jonson [00:27:06]:
I think every parent should have a course on how the phones actually or the devices actually suck kids in. I, I did look at that. I have five children. At some point I remember looking through like, you know, what do, what are the things? And I like to read. I’m a nerd. I like to nerd out on things like this. And I remember, you know, the certain colors that they’re used that draw you in to certain pages or they keep you on them and have the psychology behind it. So it’s fascinating to take that sort of the psychology component, add it to the neurobiological component and put it together into a game that provides the benefits of that light therapy.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:27:48]:
The answer to that is actually what people that are Saying is actually called neuro aesthetics. And if you type in neuro aesthetics, it’s going to actually talk about the colors and the influence of what it can do from a behavioral standpoint to. Yeah, lots of stuff. But neuro aesthetics is for people that.

Dana Jonson [00:28:05]:
Neuro aesthetics.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:28:06]:
Neuro aesthetics.

Dana Jonson [00:28:08]:
And I’m thinking, because you’ve talked a lot about autism, and I’m also thinking kids with ADHD that that would impact for them as well, because it seems that the neuroesthetics, as you, as you said, riles them up to some degree. Right. If you have adhd. So what is it? The same therapies that you use for children with autism that you would use for a kid with adhd, or would that change how you do the light therapy or what color you would use?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:28:34]:
Really, the way that I actually physically treat patients, especially kids, is that if I can, I actually do call qeegs. So similar to the neurofeedback you’re talking about, I actually do a full brainwave assessment to actually look at all the different variations of brainwaves and the different activity within the broadmind areas of the networks within the brain. And then I do what’s called a cranial nerve assessment, because sensory input from the environment drives brain development. And so what I do is I actually figure out exactly what the sensory deficits are, the pupil size, how well the eyes move. Can kids smell out of both nostrils, their facial tone? Like, I just had a kid earlier who couldn’t even do a right facial contraction. And then I actually look at something called the vagus nerve function. And then, yeah, I put together a plan based off of their brain function. So I might have kids do like 10 minutes of a certain color, five minutes of another.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:29:29]:
And then we have generalized, which is my patients go home with neuro stage foam, which is actually the video games. And so what they do is I have like standard things, for example, just overall wellness, which has like all the different colors. But predominantly my kids have dyslexia. That’s another thing. So dyslexia. It’s very interesting that it’s, you know, clinically speaking here, that if we actually use like red glasses and then we have kids basically playing our video games that basically have sound just coming out of the right ear, which stimulates the left frontal lobe, which is actually where like reading and letters and stuff are at, those kids actually read better. So what we have parents do is they basically play one of our video games. So let’s say, for example, we want to stimulate the left frontal Loop.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:30:18]:
So we have video games that you literally select the brain and you can either put to the left and it’ll light up like the left side of the brain or to the right. And so yeah, they’ll basically literally play these left brain games which is going to be sound coming out of the right ear and then all these like red and yellow. And the goal is to use this auditory and visual to stimulate the left side of the brain. And then these kids try to read and do homework after that. And we’ve seen a pretty good retention or enhancement in cognitive scores or even memorization. And you take these children who are on the spectrum from, who basically have a lot of stimming, they have aggressive behavior, impulsivity. We’ll do a lot of right brain games which is going to be sound coming out of the left ear and lots of blues and greens. And that has been clinically shown to actually help these kids with self regulation.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:31:10]:
Less stimming. And then you get ADHD because there’s variations of adhd. There’s a hyperactivity which is typically a lot of underactive in the right frontal loop based off of, you know, QEG assessments. And then you have the learning disabilities which is where these kids have issues with memory retention. They just can’t seem to get it, which is typically under activity in the left frontal lobe. And then we can quantify this from actually looking at, you know, EEGs and electrical activity and brainwaves networks in the brain.

Dana Jonson [00:31:39]:
And how lasting is this? Because I do remember when my daughter did, it was a million years ago when she did the neurofeedback. But it was fascinating to see, see the actual changes. You could see it light up and I presume that’s the same picture. I don’t know the technical term, but you know, the pictures of the brains where areas light up. And so how, how long do children retain those benefits? Is there a long term goal or is it just something they’re doing forever?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:32:07]:
Yeah, well, it kind of goes back to, I think that really, you know, parents especially listening should really ask the question, you know, why? What’s really going on? Because inflammation is a huge thing. Because inflammation is going to basically cause irritation or prevent, you know, the brain or you know, different networks from really turning home. So that’s one thing. Diet makes a significant, you know, change, although it’s not the easiest thing because kids, you know, aren’t too compliant to wanting to eat healthy foods. And then there’s something called the mthfr which obviously if you’ve, if You’ve done these enough. You know, there’s a genetic aspect of how well the brain’s been absorbed. B vitamins to make it build neurons and networks. So if you get a child on the spectrum who’s like super severe, it’s often typically recommended that we do 15, 20 minutes a day of this stimulation duration.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:33:01]:
Super severe kids, you know, they could be doing this stuff for four to six months. Because what happens is the sensory input builds brain development. So in order to learn something, you can’t just learn a new language, you have to practice it, you have to read it, you have to speak it, you have to hear it, you have to write it. That builds these networks in the brain. So for us, we’re really just doing basically a small amount of 15 minutes is what our games actually last, just to try to build function of the brain. But because a lot of these kids have a lot of under activity within their brain, they really need really more than just this video game. The goal is to just use this as a sensory stimulus. So the lasting impacts.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:33:40]:
I can just give you an example. Like we had a Parkinson’s patient who came down and did treatment with us and we were actually able to significantly reduce the tremor. And they only lasted up to 10 days. So it was basically one week of doing stimulation. So basically 15 minutes a day for five days and then the carryover effect was 10 days after that. So NeuroStage, it’s actually in like 145 different locations around the world. And yeah, I mean a lot of these doctors are using it and seeing great benefits, but it’s going to kind of go based off of those parameters, so inflammatory markers, you know, nutritional aspect, methylation issues, which is nutritional supplementation on B vitamins, and then actually the health of the actual brain. So the more developed someone is, you know, the, the less that you’re going to actually see the lasting impact because those neurons and networks in the brain are underactive.

Dana Jonson [00:34:32]:
Got it. But there is, in some situations, it’s not like every single day and you’re getting it, you’re doing it now for just today you see some lasting. So someone might do it for, like I said, Parkinson’s. They might do it for a week and then come back a week later. Or is that sort of the pattern?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:34:49]:
Well, we made it like this. Is that clinically? So we started this thing in December 2013. So now, now we’re going on basically over 10 years.

Dana Jonson [00:34:57]:
Almost 10 years. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:34:59]:
And it was really just based off of really, you know, I wanted to See, what would happen to my demographic of patients, clinically speaking, what happened is, is that after studying blue light exposure and all this stuff, that I really think that 15 minutes, 20 minutes a day is about, you know, a good threshold for sensory stimulation from screens. So we made the video games based off of that. And really the goal for this was just to basically have someone play on a daily basis. Which means that I built commercial platforms for all these clinics around the world. And then we got to the component and people are saying, look, can we get this into the homes of these kids? Because this is actually helping these kids self regulate. So then I basically got my team together and said, hey, let’s build a cloud based software and let’s actually get this stuff into the homes for those kids to do it on a daily basis. And really, that’s really kind of neuro stages now kind of come to like a daily basis where now someone can actually download neuro stage home and parents can actually use this on a daily basis with the kid. But it really is only designed for, you know, 15, 20 minutes of daily usage.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:36:05]:
So just sensory experience.

Dana Jonson [00:36:07]:
Okay, and then so with neurosage is that. I may just be confused, but is that the light there? That’s not the light therapy or it is the light therapy? No, it’s just the stimulant. It’s ocular, visual, auditory and visual. That’s okay. So there’s the auditory and visual component and then the light therapy as well. So they complement each other. Is that, Am I understanding that correctly? Got it. That’s really interesting.

Dana Jonson [00:36:33]:
And so you do the light component part, then when people come to you physically and you determine how that works for them, right?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:36:40]:
Yeah. So really it started that I started teaching all over the world and I realized that these doctors really didn’t have access, especially in Europe and Australia and the Middle east. They didn’t really have access to being exposed to what we have in the United States. So what I did is my partner and I started a medical sales distribution company. So we actually started teaching, but then we would actually bring all the stuff we were using in our practice. Red light, electrical stimulation. And then I had the software company that I was using. And so then we started teaching people basically how they can use video games and then how they can use light.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:37:20]:
And then we would teach them how to do the therapy. So that’s how it kind of went into neural stage computer software, photobiomodulation, neural solution. And then we teach how to basically apply this stuff into therapy.

Dana Jonson [00:37:33]:
And that’s Definitely. I’m presuming the video game piece has really drawn your students would be really students, clients. However you say patients are very much drawn to that. So it sounds like that is a format that would work well for them to get them engaged like that.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:37:52]:
Yeah, well, the whole thing is that it’s a lot of teenagers don’t want to go do core exercises and stimulation versus you can tell me that I can play a video game and I can get benefits. And really the goal is to just basically start using sensory through the eyes and the ears to start stimulating, enhance the function of the brain. And then there needs to be additional stuff, for example, like you need to eventually do that, but in order to get a parent to bring their kid for therapy and the kid’s not going to want to do core exercises, but at least getting them involved in the now we actually have virtual reality, which then the kids really, you know, older kids, teenagers really like virtual reality. So the goal here is to basically get these kids to come in and actually start doing therapy. But yeah, that’s. Video games significantly help out the retention of ADHD and autistic children, especially with the doctors that do therapy with us.

Dana Jonson [00:38:48]:
Amazing. So how would a parent determine or integrate these kinds of things into their child’s life if they have a child with ADHD or dyslexia or autism and they’re thinking this sounds really great, like where did they start?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:39:03]:
Yeah, well, you know, in my book that I wrote so Cracking the code of Autism, I have like a whole thing about the progression of how to use these video games because the video games originally designed originally for my patients and then the doctors that I train and they would basically distribute it out. But do I always tell people that we have a standard. So if someone downloads like neuro stage foam, it’s going to actually have a stock where you have to override. It’s going to actually go to where you just click a on the video games. And it’s going to be beneficial for both sides of the brain. But then if you have a kid who’s got dyslexia or severe developmental delays like under functioning, then you have to override the system and actually make it go to like the left side of the brain. So when we tell our clinics and our doctors when in doubt, always go right, which means that you can never really get any negative benefit from actually stimulating the right side of the brain because that’s calming versus the left side of the brain is going to drive more energy. It’s going to drive More dopamine.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:39:57]:
So you don’t want to really do that. So that’s why the games were designed to where they just automatically populate to the right side of the brain and then you have to override that to actually go to basically kind of enhance the function of the brain. That makes sense. So yeah, it was just, you know, I, I really. Because a lot of the doctors, when I start teaching, you know, it’s very interesting that, you know, teaching. And again we have everything from medical doctors, PTs, OTs, DPTs, nurse practitioners, PAs, chiropractors. A lot of these doctors are like, look, I don’t really know a lot about neuroscience. So we try to make this a lot easier for them.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:40:33]:
And then they would basically put their patients on this. And then now that we have this cloud based software, the goal for us is to basically launch this completely globally as long as someone has access to the Internet. But if you open the game up, it’s automatically going to populate to the right side of the brain which is going to be more calming and relaxing.

Dana Jonson [00:40:51]:
That makes sense. Do you find. Does insurance cover this at all or is that like starting or. I know when things are newer it’s harder to get them covered.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:41:02]:
Yeah, yeah. So right now, no, you know, this is still, I guess what considered as insurance companies call this stuff, pseudoscience.

Dana Jonson [00:41:09]:
Yeah.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:41:10]:
Now there’s, there’s actively stuff right now in the works of actually something with the FDA called digital drugs where the FDA is actually working on trying to put together a board so that way they can actually start seeing if software applications can get the same benefits of clinical drugs. Our company, we’ve done a couple of IRB studies. We’re working on actually eventually going after this FDA procedure to get classified as a digital drug right now, which is the sensory experience. No, insurance is not covering that. I do have some stuff I’m working with in a different country that the government is actually looking at our software where to actually get this, you know, applied through for mental health disorders. But here, currently in the states, no, the FDA were not regulated or not. We’re not basically under approval of the fda.

Dana Jonson [00:42:02]:
Not yet.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:42:03]:
Not yet. In the future, hopefully.

Dana Jonson [00:42:05]:
Hopefully. Do you see any schools embracing this or is this not in that realm?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:42:10]:
Yeah, no, we actually have actually in the northeast, I have a school district up in New York that we actually have this in the schools. We’ve used this in even certain populations of HR departments in the state of Texas. Yeah, you know, we, we haven’t really marketed the product. It’s Basically been from lecturing and the people finding this online. But yeah, no, we’re, we’re in schools. I’m opening up a facility in Dubai. We’re going to get this stuff into the school systems in the Middle East. But yeah, no, it’s pretty beneficial because, you know, a lot of these kids, like I said, if you have a behavioral child and you tell them to go sit in a corner in, you know, write lines, that’s not beneficial.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:42:48]:
But if that kid actually literally got in trouble, he could play a video game, but the video game isn’t beneficial. You know, the kid’s going to basically be more inclined to actually participate in that than writing lines.

Dana Jonson [00:42:59]:
So for the schools that you’re seeing embrace it in the United States, are you seeing it as like, is that something that’s an IEP based thing that they might put into it or is it an, a compliment to what they’re already receiving? Because I would see that, you know. Yeah, because I would guess that there would be concern about actually putting that in an IEP from just a legal standpoint, because I’m a lawyer, so I think that way, but I would be the person arguing for it. But are the schools that have embraced it seeing progress?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:43:28]:
It’s a couple. But we’re doing this as of right now, so we’re still under a research project to do this. And really what we’re doing is we’re actually using neurosage and then we’re also doing primitive reflex integration and core. So primitive reflexes are infant reflexes that babies go do like pattern movements like crawling, sucking on a bottle to help with the rooting reflex. So like preventing kids from basically spitting up or even speaking. Hand stimulation for Palmer Graspinski on the foot. So there’s basically these exercises that we have patients do for the moral reflex, which is the startle reflex. You drop something, someone gets startled.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:44:11]:
The Palmer reflex. For these nonverbal autistic children, if you stroke the hand, the hands actually grasp and like a baby, which is why they have poor immaturity in their hand. Same thing goes to the foot, the Babinski. If you stroke the foot, the toes are actually supposed to curl down. What’s happening in these children when you do that? They’re basically fraying up, which is basically the reflex is still there. And then a lot of these kids with developmental delays didn’t crawl properly. They scoot it. Maybe they crawled with one arm kind of bent or didn’t crawl at all.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:44:41]:
And you crawl before you walk. And there’s Patterns for that. So there’s exercises called the lizard, but yeah. So basically the primitive reflexes which I wrote in my book is it’s all these pattern movements that the brain goes through. And what it does is it allows the brain to mature. And what you’re seeing is if you Google primitive reflexes and dyslexia, you’re going to see that 50% of kids with dyslexia actually have the asymmetric tonic neck reflex. Then you look at non verbal autistic children, you’re going to see that they actually have the moro reflex, the ATNR reflex, the palmar, the rooting and then the spinal galant. And then you look at adhd, you’ll typically see that maybe they have the ATNR reflex, maybe the rooting reflex and it gets you bed wet, have the spinal glide.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:45:32]:
So it’s very interesting that these reflexes are designed to basically help with brain development. So if these kids don’t integrate these reflexes, what happens is you start getting over compensation in the brain, hyperactive networks and underactive networks. And that basically is why you get an autistic kid who’s like crazy smart. He can memorize all these numbers, but then he can’t self regulate. And it’s because he’s got high activity on one side and underactivity on the other. And the whole goal is as these reflexes integrate, it allows the brain to basically cohesively start working together. And that’s what ADHD is. It’s basically hyperactivity within the brain.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:46:14]:
The brain’s not fully integrating to basically work together.

Dana Jonson [00:46:17]:
Right. There’s so much information here I’m still processing. I’m going to have to listen back to this multiple times. So where do you see this headed, the neurological rehabilitation? Like what, where is this photobiomodulation taking us?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:46:34]:
Well, I see this from my perspective that what we’re currently doing is, believe it or not, we’re actually going out of the United States and we’re going out of there because it’s way more accepted outside, especially in the Middle East. So we’re actually having government meetings, which is very interesting. That what I see this happening hopefully is that we go to the Middle east and we really, for the next five years, we really help change the basically health care system in the Middle East. And then here in America is basically going to be watching what’s going to be going on. And then we basically bring this into the hospital system and the universities here. After we get about five years worth of, you know, bigger clinical Data, way more research. But yeah, I think that, you know, Russia is very interesting because Russia is where a lot of like, stuff is coming from. Vibrational therapy, light therapy, Germany.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:47:28]:
And so, you know, as an American, I find it a little disheartening that I have to actually go out of the United States to actually do this and really be accepted. So I think that that’s what’s happening is that there’s research that photobiomodulation is actually the equivalent of medication, maybe that, you know, and again, you can Google, it’s that effective. But the cool thing about photobiomodulation is that it has a significant reduction of, of actually side effects, which really there’s very few side effects from photobiomodulation. So it’s kind of like, is it too good to be true? And really it goes back to really us as human beings is that we’re designed to be outside in the sun. And because of commercialization we’ve come indoors and now we’re seeing an increase in all these disease processes. And I think that at least a part of it is actually looking at our light exposure.

Dana Jonson [00:48:22]:
Certainly. And I agree with you, I do find it. I feel like this is the kind of thing we should be on the cutting edge of and we’re not. So that is disheartening. But presumably you and the rest of your community will be able to get this kind of research that we need. I mean, I do like to be science based, but everything starts somewhere and science is always evolving. At least that’s been my experience. I’m hearing you about like the.

Dana Jonson [00:48:52]:
It’s great that you have the ability to go and do that and that you do have some place that is allowing you to do that to get the information that we need to bring it back to our systems and hopefully our systems will be more accepting of it. And you know, it took a long time before ABA was accepted. It takes a long time before a lot of things are accepted. I do wish we were on the cutting edge of it though. So that does make me sad.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:49:17]:
It’s interesting. No, because to answer that though is Harvard is actually pumping out a lot of this research. Dr. Hamblin, who’s actually a researcher for photobiomodulation, is publishing papers and you know, the Kirkadian Rhythm Bio Lab at Harvard is actually talking about light exposure. It’s just that I don’t think the public is actually becoming aware of these research papers that are coming out. Like, I’m a nerd. So I read, I don’t watch tv. I read a lot of research papers.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:49:48]:
And, you know, when I work with DPTs, when I work with medical doctors and they kind of question me, I’m like, look, man, like, are you reading the research? Like, not from 1900s, like, 2021, 2022, 2023. Like, are you reading the new stuff that’s coming out? Not the barbaric, you know, 1970s stuff? And that’s what you’re seeing is that the research is pumping, but Harvard is pumping out a lot of research on photobiomics and circadian rhythms.

Dana Jonson [00:50:17]:
Well, and I think, as with anything in this field, being disabilities and for me, special education, I think a lot gets moved when parents and often moms make noise. Right. When they start seeing the changes in their children and they see the benefits. And it is a science. But then on top of that, we do need to, as you said, have it socially accepted as well, which means people are paying attention to it. And that usually starts with families. Right.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:50:46]:
I mean, my fire was I was on methamphetamines for 18 years, and I developed.

Dana Jonson [00:50:50]:
Wow.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:50:51]:
And I developed crazy addictions. Fortunately, they were into reading books, and I would memorize everything. But, you know, I. I just. I have a personal internal passion for this. And then I had speech impediments. So I spent years just trying to say the word R and W. I mean, I couldn’t say, oh, wow.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:51:08]:
I had to sit up in front of the class and actually, kids make fun of me because I couldn’t say certain words. And then I would have behavior issues where I’d go and, like, you know, get in trouble. I basically card my name in the principal’s office. Yeah. So, you know, I feel for the demographic of patients, but it’s like, you know, not everyone, you know, not everyone can take a drug and it actually benefit that person. So what do you do to see what skulls like me? And that is these people that the 20% of people that don’t respond, they shouldn’t just be written off. That’s the demographic that I want to help. I want to help these people that society and traditional therapy is not helping out.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:51:47]:
And I want to tell these 20% that there is a way. It’s just that you have to kind of change your thought process or change the way that you’re, you know, currently getting treatment or therapy. And if you make a change, then you can get a change. But if you don’t make a change, you’re going to get the same protective results like insanity.

Dana Jonson [00:52:05]:
Well, and you’re. You’re right about the addiction component because there is a ton of medications and even for kids who are self medicating, you know, they’re not getting what they need so they end up self medicating. Do you have a light for addiction?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:52:18]:
No. But I will say that blue light is definitely something that can definitely enhance which is again, you know, reducing screen times and stuff like that. Getting out the sun and sleep cycles, balancing herculean rhythm can help out with producing addiction type symptoms.

Dana Jonson [00:52:35]:
Excellent. Excellent. Is there anything I’ve missed? I mean there’s so much information in here and I know it’s gonna be super relevant to parents and I suspect this will be one of those episodes people listen to multiple times. But what have I missed? Anything?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:52:49]:
No, you know, I always enjoy these things. You know, I’m. I feel like I love to do these kind of talks because I have so much knowledge in my head. So I just like to, and get this stuff out to parents and people. And then I would say that I think just to answer parents questions out there that I would highly look into primitive reflex integration. I would also highly recommend for parents to look up vagus nerve stimulation, especially kids who have constipation anxiety. Parents out there that have children that are on the spectrum that are nonverbal or speech delayed, I would highly encourage them to research trigeminal nerve stimulation. And I would also like to highlight fungal infections that I work with a lot, a lot of kids from all over the world.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:53:35]:
And every single child that I’ve ever worked on that was non verbal, especially on the spectrum has actually tested positive for ochratoxin A, which is actually a fungus that’s present a lot of times in carbohydrate and also water damaged buildings.

Dana Jonson [00:53:51]:
Interesting, that’s great. And I will have all that information in my show notes as well. So that if you’re out for a run or driving, you know, you can go back and look at the show notes and get them. So for the person who’s listening to this and says I need to find Dr. Daigle and I need to find his services and I need to find neurosage, what are the best ways to find you and your book?

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:54:12]:
Yeah, so it’s way is just everything’s all in one. So they type in Dr. Kyle bakel.com. it has like all the information to that.

Dana Jonson [00:54:20]:
Okay.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:54:21]:
To do that. The second thing is my private practice is called Neurosolution lc So basically neurosolution link Charles that would get them directly to, you know, my website for people that want to potentially call in. So Our number is +13374993162. And then on Amazon Books, a million Barnes and Noble, if someone types in cracking the code of autism. That’s one of my books. My second book is called what if you knew. That can be found on both of those. And then I have a very active Instagram page, Dr.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:55:01]:
Kyle Daigle. Same thing with the Facebook page and then also YouTube channel and. Yeah, so but Dr. Kyle dagel.com will get you to all of this and that’s the easiest way because it’s kind of a one stop shop that has the links to neurosage, the links to the photobiomodulation, the red light LED panels, and then the red light and the violet light that we use in our private practices. And then I have three locations here in the United States, Neurosolutions center in Austin, Texas with Dr. Brandy Crawford, Neurosolutions center of Allston of Atlanta, which is Dr. Ryan Cedarmark. And then I have Neurosolutions center of Lake Charles.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:55:40]:
So we do have three clinics in the United States to also kind of help out patients, but they are in the south. And then we have another facility opening up in May, NeuroSolutions center of Dubai, which is going to be in the Middle East.

Dana Jonson [00:55:53]:
Oh, wow, great. Well, that is wonderful because I’m sure there are a lot of kids out there who need your help and your information and all of this. So thank you so much for joining me again. I will have all that information in my show notes, so if you can’t write it down now, go back to the show notes and I will have all the ways in which you can reach Dr. Daigle. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Dr. Kyle Daigle [00:56:16]:
Thank you, Dana.

Dana Jonson [00:56:17]:
Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don’t forget to follow this podcast so you don’t miss any new episodes and leave a review when you have a chance. If there’s anything you want to hear about or comment on, please go to my Facebook page, Special ed on Special Ed and find me there. I’ll see you next time here on special Ed on Special Ed. Have a fabulous day.

Disclaimer [00:56:36]:
The views expressed in this episode are those of the speakers at the time of the recording and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any other agency, organization, employer or company. Company or even that individual today.