As parents contemplate their options for Fall 2020, the terms “online learning” and “virtual instruction” have become more commonplace than “unprecedented.” Many students struggled to access their education in Spring of 2020, which made parents wary of the new digital components for Fall 2020. But what is that digital component and how can you advocate for the teaching modality your child needs?
Lucky for us, Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D, is with us today and she talks to us about what successful instruction over the internet can look like. What is the difference between online learning and virtual instructional? Which is best for your child? They aren’t mutually exclusive and they aren’t the same. So join us to learn about what the differences are and how you can advocate for your child.
Jennifer is the District Vice President for Fusion’s Northeast area. She earned her Doctor of Education degree with a concentration in Educational and Instructional Leadership from Northeastern University. Additionally, she has a Master of Science degree in Educational Leadership/Administration and a Master of Science degree in Special Education both from Canisius College, as well as a Bachelor of Science degree in Education and Exceptionalities from SUNY Cortland.
Prior to joining Fusion Academy, Jennifer spent nine years as a school principal working in public school settings in New York State and taught at the middle school level prior to becoming an administrator. In addition, she has worked as an adjunct graduate professor in the Educational Leadership department at St. Lawrence University. When Jennifer is not working, she enjoys running, Pilates, and boating. Jennifer is excited to be a part of the Fusion team and believes deeply in the power of one-to-one education.
You can find Jennifer on the Fusion Academy website:
https://learn.fusionacademy.com/
A Tale of Two Approaches: Online Learning and Virtual instruction:
TRANSCRIPT (not proofread)
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
teachers, instruction, kids, fusion, virtual, learning, online, students, child, component, instructional, classroom, lesson, teach, social emotional, assignments, parents, engage, platform, campus
SPEAKERS
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D, Dana Jonson
Dana Jonson 00:02
Hello, and welcome to need to know with Dana Jonson. I’m your host, Dana Jonson and I’m here to give you the information you need to know to best advocate for your child. I’m a special education attorney in private practice, a former special education teacher and administrator, a current mom to four children with IPS and I myself have ADHD and dyslexia. So I have approached the world of disability and special education from many angles. And I’ll provide straightforward information about your rights and your schools obligations, information from other professionals on many topics, as well as tips and tricks for working with your school district. My goal is to empower you through your journey. So if there’s anything you want to hear, comment on, join our Facebook group, it’s aptly named need to know with Dana Jonson, or you can email me at Dana at special ed dot life. Okay, let’s get started.
01:02
So today we’re meeting with Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D, who is the district VP for fusion education group. And she also has a doctorate in education and instructional leadership. And the reason that I asked Jennifer to come talk to us today is because I’ve heard a lot of terms lately thrown around that I think are a bit confusing. One being online learning another distance learning another virtual learning, and people seem to be conflating them all, Jennifer and I, I saw an article that you wrote, distinguishing between them. And with your background and what you do, I thought maybe you could help us straighten it all out. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about where you are, how you got to be here and why you’re the person I’m asking about all this? Sure, I’d
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D 01:51
be happy to. Thanks for having me today. Really appreciate the time. I have been in education for about 25 years now I started out as a traditional teacher and a public school and moved into the administrative ranks. I was the school principal, in public schools in New York State for nine years. And then after nine very fulfilling or fears, I had the opportunity to come on board with fusion education group, I started out as a Head of School at our fusion White Plains campus, one of our very first East Coast schools about eight years ago now. And then I launched our fusion Academy in Greenwich as the head of school there. And for the last four to five years, I’ve been in a regional role, as he said, the Vice President for the Northeast district, and get to support all of the schools in the northeast, and really bear witness to all the amazing work that they do with our students. And as all of us have faced over the past few months, this national health crisis really threw us for a loop in terms of looking at academic institutions and determining how we can transition very rapidly and in most cases, essentially, overnight, from our brick and mortar classrooms, to online and online took on a whole lot of iterations in terms of what that looked like, and the level of support that was being provided the students. So my learning curve was steep initially, but we really had to pivot quickly. And I’m so proud of, of the work that we’ve done at fusion and how we’ve been able to support our students over the past few
03:32
months. And you guys are one of the programs, at least locally, I’m in Connecticut, that was able to pull it off. Okay, so one of the things that we learned here, and I don’t know if this is the same across the country, but at least in Connecticut, many of the private programs were able to pivot much more quickly than the public schools, and or at least more successfully, I should say, everybody pivoted, but not everyone went in the same direction. Exactly. So what you guys did was successful, which is why I wanted to talk to you about this. And I think one of the key, as a former educator, one of the key components to being successful, was to understand the change and understand you know, that what we’re doing in the classroom doesn’t suddenly turn into what you’re doing online, and that there are different ways of doing it. So I think that I guess I just said in a very confusing way that this is very confusing.
04:30
It sure is, well, there’s so many layers to it. So there’s the technology aspect, there is taking curriculum that was deliverable in a very natural way in a classroom and figuring out how to tweak that to make it as engaging and meaningful online. And out of fairness at fusion, we had a bit of a head start about 10 months ago, we started really investing in online learning and looking at how we could use web based tools to deliver instruction virtually and Most of our teachers and most of our students, thankfully had had some exposure to virtual instruction prior to COVID-19. So we had dabbled in using virtual instruction on snow days. So that we were able to maintain instruction when there were weather closures. If a child, maybe for whatever reason wasn’t feeling well enough to come to school, but still well enough to engage in their lessons, the teacher was able to deliver the instruction virtually. So I’m confident that most of our teachers, I would say about 95% of our teachers and 95% of our students had taken at least one virtual class prior to COVID-19. So thankfully, it wasn’t brand new. But that didn’t mean that there wasn’t a lot to figure out.
05:41
Yeah, and I think that’s why a lot of the private programs were able to make that jump because as you said, they had already had some experience in that area, for whatever reason, you know, for even evaluators or service providers, I know who had followed some of their clients into college. So they had to provide things virtually. So it wasn’t how they did everything. But they had that experience, and that understanding that it’s a vastly different format. So then we get to distance learning. Right? And and then I hear people’s calling it online learning, I heard people asking for virtual stuff, and distance learning. Was that a thing before the spring? Or is that just something we made up? You know, I know online learning existed in virtual instruction existed, but you know, we’re using terms as if they’re real, and I don’t think anyone’s defined them.
06:33
Exactly, exactly. I think there were so many different approaches, and a lot of hybrid approaches. And no one knew exactly what to call each of those various approaches. We’ve really defined it as two distinct things, one being online learning. And the way that we define online learning is the use of web based tools and technology, various platforms, which allow teachers to upload resources, post assignments, maybe post articles, and then the student is required to navigate those resources and those assignments independently. So it’s a it’s a very self driven asynchronous approach to exploring content. And it really puts the the primary responsibility on the student for working through their their coursework individually. And then the second is virtual instruction. And that’s really what we were able to provide at fusion. Virtual instruction involves a live teacher providing instruction in real time. And obviously, the benefit of this approach is that it allows for rich conversation, it allows for clarification, if a student is struggling, it allows her a teacher to pivot within the lesson either because a student has already mastered a concept that they were about to teach, or we need to back up and fill some some pre existing learning gaps, or maybe socially, emotionally, the child is just is just having a really bad day. And the teacher needs to take that into account and use the instructional time differently. And online learning really doesn’t allow for any social engagement or any assessment of a child’s social emotional aspect.
08:17
So and I think that’s a really important point is that I think that because everything’s been so jumbled together, that I think a lot of people are really burnt out and very afraid to engage in whether it’s online or virtual, because they feel like they already tried that. And it didn’t work. But I want to talk a little bit about the difference between what we were doing last spring, and what virtual and online learning is, and and they’re organized, planned, thought out programs, right, this isn’t just taking your work that you would have given in the classroom and throwing it online. does it translate the same way? Or do you have to think of your curriculum a little differently?
09:03
Yeah, I think in some classes, it you really have to think about about your lessons in your curriculum vastly differently. Think about science labs, for instance, or physical education. Those teachers really needed some creativity, they needed to think about some new resources that might be available online things that they hadn’t had exposure to when they were teaching in a traditional classroom simply because they didn’t need to utilize those tools. In other classes, the online learning component, maybe for an English class where a teacher could post an article for a student to read and respond to offers some engagement. But those rich conversations that would typically take place in a classroom amongst peers or between the teacher and the students are really lacking in an online learning model. So I think it’s dependent on the course but I would argue that essentially every class that we’re shifting to a virtual instruction or online learning model, we need to rethink to some extent.
10:04
Yeah. Because I mean, I think that there’s another issue with kids being just so on their screen all day, right? Like, how much work can they do at the end of the day. So I know that was one of the adjustments. My children’s school did, which was when they went completely virtual for the whole day. They said, well, the kids can’t be doing that level of homework, because they can’t be back on their screen, it just their brains aren’t functioning anymore. You know, it’s not a matter of whether we like the screen or not, it’s just, you can’t get more out of them. So what kind of training do teachers need to be able to learn how to make those shifts?
10:42
Exactly, I think it’s such a great point about the amount of screen time and we definitely advise our teachers about using technology to enhance learning outcomes and understanding, but to avoid technology for the sake of technology. So you know, I can even speak to my my own children’s experience with with their online learning program and the number of apps and you know, online websites and different flash virtual flashcards that they were using was overwhelming, and I would argue detracted from their learning, as opposed to actually enhancing their learning. So what we’ve advised is that when contemplating any lesson or activity, when you’re teaching online, it’s critical to consider if the learning can be enhanced by online tools, or if it would serve a child more powerfully, to engage in some non screentime. So for example, if a child in an English class is doing a written piece, maybe it’s more powerful to go interview a family member about an experience, or you’re talking about an astronomy lesson, let’s get kids outside to look at the sky and do some real life hands on activities that serve two purposes, as they enhance the learning. And they pull them away from the screen, which during the teaching days of COVID-19, you know, they really were spending a tremendous amount of time in front of their screens.
12:10
Yeah. And I I also think that it’s so as you said, technology for the sake of technology, there’s so many resources, there’s so much online, and I think it’s so tempting to say, Okay, guys, go look up the preamble of the Constitution and tell me about it. And I know even for myself, I would you’d come up with 100 search answers, right? And then you get into this little hole, you start clicking, and you go here, and you go there. And so I also think it’s easy to to put that on students and say, you know, go find stuff because it’s there. But that’s not organized instruction.
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D 12:50
Right? No, it’s really not
12:52
sorry, learning, like online classes have a different, like, how would you advise structuring like an online class, right? You don’t just give open ended assignments? Right? It’s a completely different way of producing the information. Does that make sense?
13:08
It does, it doesn’t, I think, at fusion, because we have a one to one instructional component, we were able to transition pretty seamlessly, whether it was the teacher and the child using zoom as the platform. And they were able to kind of carry on the way that they typically would in the classroom with those instructional tweaks that I previously mentioned. But I think what’s most important is considering and different way of engaging kids, when you think about the the traditional school day beings, six to seven hours long, that is far too long for a child to be in front of a computer screen. So building in to instruction breaks away from the screen, maybe even 10 minutes, stretch breaks, or introducing the task or the assignment and then having the child work independent of technology for a certain amount of time. So really being mindful of using technology to deliver instruction, but also getting away from the screen to enhance instruction.
14:07
It’s one to one at fusion, but how does this translate to a teacher as multiple students? And I guess what I’m thinking is breaking that time down, taking that hour and saying, okay, I don’t need to be talking to 30 students for an hour, maybe I can talk to five for 10 minutes. And you know, and breaking it down to those lower components. Because when you have less students, you don’t need as much time. Right, is that exactly. does that translate that? Well?
14:34
I think it does. And the lessons learned from my perspective, as an educator observing fusion teachers, really delivering virtual instruction without missing a beat, and then observing as a parent, my children and engaged in more of an online learning platform. I think folks who would utilize the online learning platform can can really learn from the skills and strategies were implemented in the virtual instruction platform, which involved not only rich live instruction, I think that’s the key distinction is we can’t just post things for kids to figure out on their own, there has to be a component of live instruction, I agree, it doesn’t need to be an hour in length, it can, it can be very much in, in a classroom, as a teacher, it would be uncommon for a teacher to lecture for an hour, they would introduce a concept, maybe do an activity, you know, and the great thing about zoom is you can break kids into groups and do all kinds of social engaging collaborative activities, but then also building some predictable routines into those sessions. So one of the things that I’ve been most impressed with with some of our fusion teachers, is that their 15 minutes with the teacher was so structured that the kids knew what to expect, there was no deductibility, they knew that for the first 10 minutes, there was going to be some kind of bell ringer engagement type activity, and that there was going to be a discussion and that you know that there were going to be some pretty predictable components of the lesson. And I think that that gives them just a set of expectations for how the the time with the teacher will be spent. And I also think that building routines in identifying times for stretch breaks, tasks for socializing online with peers. So not only focused so much on the the instructional component COVID-19 was so socially isolating for kids. And so finding ways to not only check in on their their social emotional well being, but also setting up times for them just to engage as kids with their peers is so critically important. And it was completely absent from the online learning platform that most school districts use. And how
16:45
did fusion address that? Because I know that, you know, what I hear a lot is, oh, it’s one on one, it’s isolating because you’re by yourself, but you’re not there’s a large social component to that. It’s just the instruction is one on one. But so how did fusion address that social component, while moving completely digital?
17:02
Yeah, fusion did a beautiful job, I would say that’s one of one of the things that I’m most proud of, in terms of reflecting on our virtual instruction experience. They actually built in the homework cafe component, which at fusion is our opportunity to have kids collaborating based on what they’ve just done in the classroom. So our typical social hub of the campus continued virtually online, but even more importantly, all of our clubs. So whether it be the cooking club, or the d&d Club, or student government clubs, they all continue to meet virtually initially, during those first few weeks, when kids were maybe struggling with the transition online, our teachers really rose to the occasion, if they had kids who are anxious about seeing themselves on camera, they were teaching kids how to minimize their own video feeds so that they didn’t have to stare at themselves the entire lesson. I also saw some teachers who would take you out for the first half of this class. Let’s not use the video, I had a couple of teachers who even pulled in their their Halloween costumes, unicorns, hot dog costumes, to try to keep the kids engaged and to add a little levity. And one of the ways that they did that that was so much fun, because they would do lunchtime Hangouts. So from 1230 to 130. On zoom, all the kids on any particular campus could log in. And they would they did one day, that was a pet meet and greet. Some of the kids are eating, they all introduce their their pets. I even had one when kiddo didn’t have a pet. So he brought his his house plans to the session. And they would do all their spirit days, you know, favorite sports team dress with your favorite sportswear, whatever it was all of those social events that would have happened on the campus. They tried to continue virtually, and really just setting up time for kids to engage outside of their academic content.
19:00
I like what you said though, at the beginning about helping a kid figure out how to use the video. So it wasn’t so distracting. Because one that drives me nuts. If I’m looking at myself, while I’m doing this, I’m fixing my hair. I’m like, Oh, my glasses are crooked, is that picture behind me crooked? It’s, it drives me insane. And so and then as as I was teaching one class with my kids, and you know, when they discovered the virtual background, suddenly I’ve got one kid in Hawaii, somebody else’s in the space and then somebody is upside down. And so, you know, I had to encourage them to not be so distracting to each other, because none of them could learn but I couldn’t expect them. When I was getting on meetings with adults who were doing that I realized I couldn’t expect kids to understand not to do that. So that was a skill that I realized I had to teach them rather than being irritated and pissed off. ended. You know, as I got on him, I got on a couple of zooms with some adults at the beginning. And I thought everyone is playing with their backgrounds, everybody’s, you know, this is all over the place, how can I possibly expect teenagers to figure this out? So is that part of something that you guys built in and talked about helping your students learn how to use this platform?
20:20
It sure is. And in fact, in the early days of transitioning to virtual instruction, we actually had some parents hesitant to have their their children participate in the virtual instruction. And actually, in some cases, they said, You know, I think I’d rather pause the classes and then resume when we can go back to live, real time on campus instruction. And obviously, none of us expected this to go on quite as long as it as it did at that point. But what we, what we said to parents in that moment was, let’s give it a try for a week or two. And if this isn’t working for your child will repeat those sessions, you’re not you’re not losing anything. And we want to make sure, obviously, first and foremost that your child from an instructional standpoint, is gaining the knowledge that they need to gain. However, if we can make this work, then you know, we can continue with great continuity, the instruction that we had been providing on campus, and I would say 99.9% continued with, with virtual instruction, even the ones who were reluctant. And a lot of that had to do with teachers, teaching kids how to focus in a different way, how to take those stretch, breaks, how to build exercise into their day. And when you know, you’re going to be sitting more, it’s an even more important reason to get out and take a walk in the morning or at lunchtime. So they were really educating them. And using this, this whole new world that we were exploring together. And recently, I had the opportunity to host a webinar with five of our fusion juniors and seniors, and it was awesome. So much fun. But But those those kids were, first of all, so articulate and impressive, I wish it 17 or 18, I had half of that. But they one of the one of the things they talked, so candidly about was, you know, there was an adjustment period, it took a week or two to kind of settle into this, and, you know, learn the technology and figure out especially in certain classes that, you know, it just wasn’t working as well. And a lot of times, that meant the teacher needed to tweak the the instruction. But ultimately, at the end of the day, they all talked about feeling better prepared for their post secondary experience as a result of this virtual instruction experience that they had just finished. And I think, you know, now most colleges have at least some virtual components, you know, whether it be a hybrid, or, you know, you go live to live instruction in a lecture hall, and then you have to log on to Blackboard or another platform to post in a discussion board. So I think that as a result of the time they spent the spring in engaged in virtual instruction, they’re better prepared to go off to college and be successful with some of those platforms.
23:10
And that was actually going to be the next thing I was going to ask you was I would say is that, you know, this virtual world kind of, we were headed in this direction, we were just going at a slower pace. And and COVID rushed it up. But these aren’t just skills kids need to know now to get through this crisis. You know, now that we understand this can happen, that we can be successful. And I know for many people, this has not yet been successful. So you know, I don’t just mean school, I mean that people, some people are able to work from home who never knew they could, you know, that colleges can provide meaningful instruction, from a distance and at a cheaper price, you know, all of these pieces are falling together, that this is now a life skill, right? This is a skill, learning how to communicate this way, socialize this way, this is something that kids are going to require in the future. So do you what I’m hearing is you guys took that time to teach the kids and to teach them the different components they needed to understand to be successful.
24:22
Exactly. And for some of them, it was, you know, just a really easy seamless transition. And for other kids it, it took some flexibility and it took some tweaking. So for some kids, the the six to seven hour day was just too long, it was too long for it worked for them when they were in a campus setting, but it was much more difficult for them to be in front of a screen for that amount of time. So in those instances, we would reduce the number of courses that they were taking on a daily basis, you know, recognizing that it was going to take them longer to complete their courses, but the outcomes were at We’re going to be much more relevant and robust because they were able to focus for that shorter amount of time and really have some some instructional games. Whereas kids who couldn’t focus for six to seven hours, then six and seven hours might as well not have happened because they were so burnt out at that point, right.
25:17
And before we can teach the kids how to function in this new reality, we have to teach the teachers. So what did your staff do or bring to the table that that allowed them to be able to make these shifts and understand how to do that? Because I, I do you think it is fair to say that most teachers who are struggling with this public school teachers who are struggling with this, were never taught how to do it?
25:45
Yeah. And that’s where thankfully, we had had some exposure to it. And so the technology component wasn’t as much of an obstacle, it was more each Head of School at all of our campuses, had to connect one to one with every teacher, and really determine what they needed in terms of support, was it tech support, was it curricular support, was it that they were having a hard time engaging kids for over 20 minute period, and really individually addressing each each of those areas, and then there was a lot of collective professional development. So on a weekly basis, we were providing professional development to our teachers, both on a national scale and also individually, you know, campus by campus, and ensuring that they were privy to some of the new resources that were available, that they were thinking about lesson planning in a slightly different way that they were really checking in on our kids socially, emotionally, that’s such a huge part of the work that we do at fusion. And, you know, starting lessons by just asking how a child was doing on a particular day, maybe following up if we knew that there was a family member who was ill, just really letting them know that even though we’re virtual, we still care deeply. And that their social, emotional aspect is what we are most concerned about.
27:18
And I’ve heard so many people talking online about the academics, kids have missed the socialization kids have missed, but I don’t hear enough talk about the social emotional toll that this has taken on everybody. And you know, for those of us who are saying, I’m still getting through the day, and I haven’t killed anyone in my house, so I must be okay. That’s what I’m saying. Anyway.
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D 27:47
That’s the goal, right?
27:49
So I must be fine. But I think it’s really important for all of us to remember that. And if you look at Maslow’s hierarchy, right, it’s that safety and that social emotional, that needs to be first. And, and that is really impacting kids, whether it looks like it’s impacting them or not. And I think taking that time to recognize that they need that sort of check in and, and that component first and that maybe they need to be taught
28:18
how to socialize. Exactly, you know, fusion are the the crux of our instructional model is love, motivate, teach, and learn order, because we recognize if the relationship is not in place, the child will not be motivated, and they will not learn. So we lead with with love in the classroom, and are so driven by relationships, that that was a very seamless, natural transition to virtual instruction was checking in and making sure that that kids were doing okay. But I would say it’s what’s most lacking from the online learning model, there really is not a lot of opportunity for kids to check in with kids, teachers to check in with kids. I can only think of one instance, in the entire spring where a teacher reached out to just checking in to see how one of my kids was was doing with this very stressful situation. And my son was so grateful for that check in. But that should be the norm, not the exception.
29:23
Right. And I think that when we look at last spring, and we I think it’s fair to say that was not really either of those things, right? it you know, when we’re talking about the public schools, I did not observe anything that I would qualify as online or virtual learning,
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D 29:40
right? Yeah,
29:42
it was just a bit of a crisis. But you know, I had a child who actually did very well, with the online component, the not having to engage I mean, that’s her jam. She has been practicing for social isolation, her whole life, it’s her thing and she was thrilled. But there was a component where she needed that interaction. So when parents are looking at or requesting from schools, because there are some parents who are making that choice to not go back, I question whether it’s actually going to be a choice or not. But, you know, at some point, we’re going to be back online. And they’re, you know, when parents are advocating for what their child needs. What is that difference when they say I want virtual instruction? Or I want online instruction? How should those be defined? So that parents know what they’re asking for? Because I think that’s the different definitions is what’s messing people up to right. Someone’s saying, I want you know, someone kept telling me it was homeschooling homeschooling homeschooling. And finally, I was like, you’re not homeschooling stop saying homeschooling. Yeah, you know, but in so if you’re asking for homeschooling, but that’s not what you mean, you’re not going to get what you want. So how do parents differentiate between online learning and virtual learning in order to advocate for their kids?
30:58
Sure. So my advice there would be, regardless of what we call it, what parents need to be asking for is some live instruction. And that’s not recorded. You know, we did have some teachers who would post recorded lessons, 1520 minute demos that the the child still viewed independently, and there was no interaction with the teacher. But the request really needs to be for live real time instruction, because what that allows is for a child to ask questions, seek clarification, engaged with the content under the supervision of the teacher, which would be what was happening in the live brick and mortar classroom. So that would be the the first ask would be we need some we need a live instruction component, there also needs to be a socialization component. So whether that be using zoom to break kids into groups and have them engage with content and curriculum together, or having them in groups doing some kind of assignment or project, or Furthermore, just having them socialize for the sake of socialization, and having fun and being kids. There, there really needs to be that, because that’s a big part of schooling and a big part of what they’re missing. And then lastly, I would say making sure that the school is checking in with with kids that you know, our kids spend a tremendous amount of their day of their week of their life, in school with teachers. And in a classroom, if you have a child who is demonstrating some behaviors that are concerning, and worrisome from a social emotional standpoint, the teacher has resources to connect that student with a counselor or offer some support in one way or another. And as a parent, I want it to be part of my child’s school program, because the school is going to observe different aspects of my child than I do at home. And so we really need to work in tandem as parents and teachers to make sure that our kids are doing okay, in this incredibly stressful period of time. And for teachers who aren’t clear on what they are doing. What
33:14
should they be asking for? What kind of professional development do they need? Would you recommend, like if you’re, if you had a teacher who just wasn’t connecting? What what professional development would you recommend?
33:27
Yeah, I think thankfully, a lot of zoom sessions have been recorded. So there is a lot of great content and exemplars out there for teachers to observe, you know, peer to peer start understanding what worked, what didn’t work, more and more in seeing teacher blog posts and posting boards, where teachers can seek resources, they can talk about the challenges that they faced, and, and be connected with a peer who was able to overcome something similar. But I really think the professional development that we we would typically be providing to our teachers, on, you know, conference days and after school sessions needs to be built in. So we need to ensure that we’re talking to teachers about lesson planning, what does virtual instruction lesson planning look like? And how is that different from what you would have done in the classroom, and then ensuring that they’re, they’re considering screentime as a factor? That’s the biggest distinction, obviously, between that live in person instruction. And what we were all experiencing this spring, is we have to take screentime into consideration it has to be a factor that is contemplated as part of a lesson plan. And that’s new that’s new to all of us. It’s something we did not have to consider when we were in in our traditional classrooms.
34:55
But I guess I’m kind of hopeful that I’ve never been a proponent of homework, I just don’t, you know, not busy work not for the sake of busy work. So I’m really hopeful that this will get other people on board with that. Kids don’t need to be doing a ton of extra work just for the sake of doing work. But yeah, I think that that has been or that is a really critical component, because it’s also not just impacting the student, it’s impacting the teacher, they are also on the screen all day. And then they have to end and go lesson plan all the rest of the day for what they’re going to do on the screen the next day. So you know, it’s both of them are being bombarded with this component that is draining.
35:40
Agreed, agreed. And it is a little bit of trial and error to figure out what what that balance is. But but I think it’s one of those things that the more exposure, the more experience, it starts to happen much more much more naturally, unfortunately, my experience was that the volume of quote unquote, busy work or, you know, assignments that were farmed out, was more in the interest of keeping kids busy for a certain amount of time. So it was typically, you know, I would teach for 15 minutes, and there would be about 30 or 40 minutes of homework independently. And so I think for some teachers, it was posting that amount of work to keep them busy for that amount of time, as opposed to really thinking about instructional outcomes, academic engagement, teaching and learning, encouraging kids to explore topics deeper on their own independently, it really just became filling time, which I think we can all agree is is not beneficial.
36:39
Did you find with your teachers, was there difficulty with consistency over the online platforms that were used? Because one of the things I saw was that different teachers were utilizing different forms, right, there is no organization to, you know, let’s use this for handing out lessons. And this if you want to have a classroom chat, and this, you know, it wasn’t. So there was this sort of kids signing in here and there and everywhere else and trying to figure out how to use many different online resources.
37:12
Exactly. You know, from from my son’s experience, it was sheer chaos I and actually speaking to their school administrators indicated, I have taken hybrid doctoral level courses that were less complex than what we were asking freshmen in high school to accomplish in terms of the number of platforms for turning in work for posting a sign or posting on a discussion board, not to mention all of the apps and websites and you know, flashcards and all of these other resources that were kind of thrown at them. At fusion, we really streamlined that in the interest of ensuring that our kids were engaged with the academics and not bogged down by all these unnecessary layers in terms of resources, we have our own internal platform. And so it was a pretty seamless transition, it was the same platform that kids have used to turn in assignments when they were on live on campus. And so we were able to consistently utilize that platform, and any additional outside resources that a teacher hoped to embed in the lesson, they were able to post within that platform. So it was very seamless. But that would be one of the pieces of advice I would give to any of the schools that used an online learning model in the spring is you really have to be intentional about minimizing the number of platforms being utilized, because it’s simply overwhelming. And it detracts from student learning.
38:44
Yeah, it does. This has been incredibly informative. So what would you know, you’re leaving remarks for parents or teachers who need to advocate who need to find something for their child, and they’re going to their school, and they’re saying, This is what I need? What, you know, we’ve talked about making sure there’s virtual or live instruction, making sure that they are checking in. And what other advice would you give?
39:13
Obviously, these are incredibly unprecedented, uncertain times. And they’re
39:19
there I ever hear if I don’t ever hear unprecedented again.
39:25
Exactly. You and me both. But I think we need to recognize the stress, right, and everyone with the best of intentions was working through an incredibly untenable set of circumstances. Yeah. And, you know, I think Fortunately, the lessons learned through virtual instruction that worked really well for kids was primarily that it builds some normalcy into these very difficult days. It allowed us to mitigate some of the stress by providing the academic support. social emotional support. And and I think until we can all be together in a classroom, again, virtual instruction allows us to connect. And so whether it be a teacher, a student or a parent, we need to advocate for that connection, and it needs to be live. And in real time, I don’t think we can prescribe a certain number of minutes. I don’t think we can prescribe, you know, certain components. But what needs to
Dana Jonson 40:27
be individualized is that what
40:31
individualized in the fact that we’re taking the learners into consideration, we’re not just using a cookie cutter approach to delivering some kind of instruction, we’re looking at what kids need, just like we would in a traditional classroom, and we’re being responsive to that. And simply posting assignments online is not in any way responsive to what students need now. And I,
40:55
I feel like I have to say that we do acknowledge that not all students can engage in virtual learning, I think there are students out there who can’t, and that is a reality that we have to deal with. But I also think there are a lot of kids who are not successful last spring, but would be successful under proper virtual instruction, or even, you know, proper online instruction, because I didn’t see a lot of that done properly. either. I agree with you that that virtual component needs to be there, I think it makes a huge difference for most kids. But I did also not see appropriate online instruction. So I think that I want parents to not be afraid, you know, not be afraid to try the online or the virtual, if it’s done properly, and to when they advocate know what they’re advocating for.
41:46
Exactly. And teachers and parents alike, are seeking change. And I’ve spoken to several teachers in traditional schools who are very frustrated by their spring experience and are hoping that if circumstances require us to be virtual again in September, that they can serve their students more powerfully by enhancing the experience. So I think there’s a great desire to get this right. And to make sure that we’re we’re being responsive to our kids.
42:19
Now, I agree with you. And I believe that teachers and students all want this. I just don’t want them to confuse what happened last spring, weather what can happen, and teachers too, because I think there are teachers who are burnt out and upset and tired. And I think with the proper support, and the proper training, this can be done. And it doesn’t have to be painful for teachers either.
42:44
And you guys showed that agreed? agree there’s so much opportunity here.
42:48
I know. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. This is incredibly helpful. And I’m hoping that the straighten some things out for some parents and teachers so that when they are advocating for themselves and their students, they have a better sense of what to do. So thank you, Jennifer. If somebody says I need to talk to Jennifer, she obviously knows what she’s talking about. And I need to reach out and find out about her or a fusion or anything else. How can they find you?
43:12
Absolutely. So they can find me on fusions website. So fusion academy.com. And be happy to talk with anyone who is exploring options for September. Excellent. And I will have
43:25
that contact information as well as links to the articles that I referenced at the beginning of our talk on the show notes. So anyone listening to this can just go back to the computer when you have a chance and look up the shownotes and all of that contact information will be there. And thank you so much, Jennifer, I really appreciated this.
Jennifer Walsh Rurak, Ed.D 43:43
Oh, thanks so much for having me. It’s been great to chat with you.
43:46
Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don’t forget to subscribe to this podcast so that you get notifications when new episodes come out. And I want to know what you want to know. So join our Facebook group also named need to know with Dana Jonson or you can email me at Dana at special ed dot life. But definitely reach out with your comments and questions and I’ll see you next time here on me to know with Dana Jonson have a fabulous day
